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harold

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you shouldn't be running for me lawyer

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it's bad form

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and you know what i want to talk about

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in a minute judge powell is going to

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call us down he's going to want to know

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if we're ready for trial

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we are we are not and you know why not

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rule one i get paid or i don't work

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don't worry i got your money exactly you

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got it

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i don't it's coming i talked to my boys

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listen harold i looked on the list of

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people i trust

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you're not on it that's matthew

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mcconaughey from the lincoln lawyer

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schooling his client on how the legal

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system really works

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it's a topic that factors into this

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interview i have coming up with

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attorney and investigative journalist

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william ramsey

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quite prominently especially when it

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comes to the case we're going to talk

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about one of them the west memphis 3

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and how it generated this

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ridiculous meme about satanic panic

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because

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as you'll hear no matter what you feel

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about

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the legal proceedings surrounding damien

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echols and these

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crimes there really should be no doubt

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that this is an individual that was

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deeply deeply

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involved in satanic occult

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practices and i say that of course

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because you've listened to this show

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with satanic being in quotes because

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we can't pigeonhole all this evil

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and hang it on one guy here's a clip

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from the upcoming interview with william

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but he looks so innocent and harmless

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but that's exactly the point i want to

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put on about the deception

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he's caught with in it just an

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outrageous lie there right

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right yeah i mean they caught him in a

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lie that he was writing

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like a secret script i mean the

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allegation is that he was obsessed with

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the occult right

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but they denied all that but while he

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was in jail what's he doing he's writing

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this secret script that has jason

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baldwin's name and alistair crowley

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and and then then he gets out what's he

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do he's right back

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writing books about magic with a k and

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making all these very different

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interviews he's quoting he's talking

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about the moonlight

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he's talking about rituals he's tweeting

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he's tweeting about it

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i mean it's just incredible that people

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can actually

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be be led on to think that that's not

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the skeptico where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers

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thinkers and their critics i'm your host

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alex sacaris and today

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we welcome william ramsey to skeptico

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william is an attorney researcher author

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filmmaker and creator of william

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ramsey investigates which

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is really quite an amazing impressive

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body of

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investigative journalism and interviews

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i've listened to so many of them

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i think i first came across william on

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opperman report and uh he's done

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a ton on there but

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it's just an incredible body of work and

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it's really really relevant to the stuff

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that i want to talk about

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and that's why i reached out to william

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and he was nice enough

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to kind of come out and talk about some

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of this stuff it's such a great fit for

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some of the stuff i've been looking into

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hey some of the books we should mention

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i pulled them up

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abomination devil worship and deception

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in the west memphis three you guys have

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heard me mention west memphis three and

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sometimes i say it like inside baseball

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and i know there's a lot of people that

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don't totally get that i mean they get

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it kind of on a placeholder meme

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level but william's really going to walk

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us through that because he's done some

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amazing research on that

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and then there's children of the beast

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aleister crowley's shadow over humanity

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really interesting book and also i

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should mention

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uh a vimeo movie that you can get we'll

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show that in just a minute and then

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finally

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prophet of evil alistair crowley 911

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and the new world order so

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william just pretty amazing stuff there

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it's great to have you on thanks so much

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for joining me

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great thank you for having me glad to be

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here so i think right off the bat

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a lot of people are super intrigued

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hooked into this

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attorney researcher

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writing books on crowley in west memphis

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three and that's your traditional

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kind of uh you know true crime stuff i

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mean that's not that's not at all your

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thing so

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tell us a little bit about how you came

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to do

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what you do william ramsey investigates

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well i was always kind of a person who

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was willing to research things that were

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not

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covered by the corporate media i went to

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law school in dc

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and worked there from 95 to 98

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and saw some very remarkable things i

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briefly worked on the

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what they call the suicide events foster

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which was really the murder of fence

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foster he was

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murdered and dumped in a park for mercy

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park okay

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we can't just we can't just leave that

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hanging for people who don't know

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quick quick sketch of that case what how

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significant it is what it's about

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and why it's not a suicide right so

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he was a lifelong friend actually i

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think he lived in the same town as bill

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clinton he was a lawyer he

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graduated his name was vince foster

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graduated first in his class

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at villanova which is a challenging law

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school so it's very

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significant accomplishment and he worked

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in the white house he was

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i think the chief counsel or a council

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in the white house

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he was tight i mean he was tight linked

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into those guys he was there

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especially hillary right i mean a lot of

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other things maybe but

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really yeah the rose law firm things

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going back to arkansas and there was all

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kinds of shenanigans and

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criminality that were happening in

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arsenal arkansas there was a massive

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drogon uh

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laundering running and laundering

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operation

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that was using mena arkansas which was a

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kind of a

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airport that was in the military as a

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transshipment for

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not millions but billions of dollars

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worth of cocaine

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and all that money had to be washed and

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uh

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you know there's you can get there's all

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kinds of investigations and people who

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talked about that

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aspect of how the clintons came up in

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power but

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uh he was vince foster was found in the

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fort marcy park it was called fort marcy

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because it's an old civil war fort

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that was made out of berms really large

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pieces of the civil war soldiers the

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union soldiers

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cut down tall trees and made this fort

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there that protected

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the potomac and washington dc during the

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civil war

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in 1860s and it's still a remnant and it

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became kind of a

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i mean it has kind of a sketchy

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background but he was found there

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you know on a berm under unusual

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circumstances he left for lunch i can't

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remember the dates now i believe it was

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1994.

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clinton came to the white house in 1992

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and served two terms um but

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he was found there and it was

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immediately called to suicide

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and it was super suspicious and i

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yeah i mean like i was there yeah we

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won't go into it too far but

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i'd like to know your involvement but

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wasn't it crazy like you know

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burn marks you know gun on the left side

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of the head right

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he was left-handed right the gun was in

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the hand which is

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almost never happens in a suicide

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because your

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involuntary shock goes through your body

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uh so it was

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looked like somebody who watched a

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hollywood movie would stage something

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and also the fact that he was lying down

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on a berm

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so what he would have done to do that

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was to actually decide

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to walk all the way deep into this park

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and then lie down with his back on a

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berm

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and then perform the act hold on to the

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gun which nobody knew he owned

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and then cover himself in rug fibers and

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then

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the blood pattern would magically drift

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away that was non-gravitational

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it was just so it was just off the

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charts sketch and there was all kinds of

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covered up there were ripped up

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suicide notes that were found in his

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briefcase they recover

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i mean it was really dark and very dirty

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and uh so that was interesting how how

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did you get connected and what did you

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do did you want to

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see investigations or anything well yeah

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well i was a

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i was an intern for the lawyer for

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patrick knowlton who was one of the

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chief witnesses so patrick knowlton

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i mean this goes back 25 years pat it's

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unbelievable but i

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this guy's name was john clark and he's

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still a lawyer in dc

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and i just went to work for him and what

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i did for him

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was compile this evidence file

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that was different than what was in the

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star report

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and it was kenneth starr and the chief

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aide for kenneth starr was brett

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kavanaugh right he was now the supreme

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court justice

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so most of the star report was actually

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written by kavanaugh

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and if you ever read through the star

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report and read through

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the footnotes which i suggest you do you

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should read the footnotes before you

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actually read the main text

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kavanaugh didn't pull any punches there

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were all kinds of stories about

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what what bill clinton was really up to

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how many girlfriends he had and stuff

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like that

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anyway so i worked for clark and i

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actually sat down with knowlton and

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they're still around they're still

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giving interviews

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and uh knowlton was the first witness at

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the park who saw something suspicious

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the fbi tried to change his or

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manipulate his story

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after vince foster died it's not really

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that funny but

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after vince foster died there was a new

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fbi director the next day

284
00:10:00,230 --> 00:09:58,640
so the fbi director got switched out and

285
00:10:03,030 --> 00:10:00,240
uh

286
00:10:05,030 --> 00:10:03,040
yeah so what clark did is created

287
00:10:06,710 --> 00:10:05,040
something that was in the it actually is

288
00:10:09,670 --> 00:10:06,720
pretty fascinating because he

289
00:10:11,190 --> 00:10:09,680
successfully had that addendum attached

290
00:10:13,110 --> 00:10:11,200
to the star report

291
00:10:14,389 --> 00:10:13,120
by the district court of dc it's a

292
00:10:16,150 --> 00:10:14,399
three-person

293
00:10:18,310 --> 00:10:16,160
court they actually just ruled on the

294
00:10:20,069 --> 00:10:18,320
flynn case if you're familiar with that

295
00:10:23,350 --> 00:10:20,079
that's three-person court

296
00:10:24,710 --> 00:10:23,360
uh the rid of mandamus was

297
00:10:26,069 --> 00:10:24,720
accepted by them and they're supposed to

298
00:10:27,190 --> 00:10:26,079
they were overturning the lower court

299
00:10:29,590 --> 00:10:27,200
with this corrupt judge

300
00:10:31,030 --> 00:10:29,600
in my opinion uh by the name of sullivan

301
00:10:32,550 --> 00:10:31,040
who handled the flame case and an

302
00:10:33,590 --> 00:10:32,560
atrocity he just shouldn't even be on

303
00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:33,600
the bench

304
00:10:38,630 --> 00:10:36,640
uh but uh so that addendum the clark

305
00:10:40,230 --> 00:10:38,640
addendum or the knowlton addendum to

306
00:10:41,910 --> 00:10:40,240
the startup report is available and was

307
00:10:42,389 --> 00:10:41,920
put on there by this three-person judge

308
00:10:44,230 --> 00:10:42,399
who

309
00:10:46,150 --> 00:10:44,240
you know there's all kinds of facts that

310
00:10:48,630 --> 00:10:46,160
that star didn't seem to want to think

311
00:10:50,550 --> 00:10:48,640
so the gripe against kavanaugh uh with

312
00:10:51,030 --> 00:10:50,560
the clintons is personal and goes back

313
00:10:53,590 --> 00:10:51,040
to that

314
00:10:55,190 --> 00:10:53,600
it goes back to the mid 90s a lot of

315
00:10:56,710 --> 00:10:55,200
people don't know that so a lot of this

316
00:10:58,790 --> 00:10:56,720
kind of species

317
00:11:00,630 --> 00:10:58,800
you know he laughed at me while he was

318
00:11:03,350 --> 00:11:00,640
sexually assaulting me

319
00:11:04,870 --> 00:11:03,360
there's a there's a motivation for all

320
00:11:06,230 --> 00:11:04,880
that stuff that went down with kavanaugh

321
00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:06,240
so

322
00:11:13,910 --> 00:11:11,120
really how i kind of figured

323
00:11:15,509 --> 00:11:13,920
that their stories their narratives and

324
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:15,519
then there's the real story

325
00:11:22,630 --> 00:11:18,640
and the politicization of reality

326
00:11:24,550 --> 00:11:22,640
is unfortunately a horrible

327
00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:24,560
situation to endure for all americans

328
00:11:26,790 --> 00:11:25,680
because you're still going through it

329
00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:26,800
right now

330
00:11:30,550 --> 00:11:28,560
and that was one of the things that

331
00:11:33,430 --> 00:11:30,560
happened in this the whole

332
00:11:34,389 --> 00:11:33,440
uh vince foster fiasco along with so

333
00:11:36,550 --> 00:11:34,399
much other

334
00:11:38,630 --> 00:11:36,560
criminality anyway john clark had me

335
00:11:41,030 --> 00:11:38,640
take that addendum i was so dumb

336
00:11:41,990 --> 00:11:41,040
i was so naive i was i walked around and

337
00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:42,000
hand delivered

338
00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:45,200
it to every member of congress both in

339
00:11:49,670 --> 00:11:45,680
the

340
00:11:51,030 --> 00:11:49,680
representative sites

341
00:11:54,829 --> 00:11:51,040
so i was just handing this thing out

342
00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:54,839
saying hey and i remember handing it to

343
00:11:58,949 --> 00:11:57,760
uh arlen spector's office

344
00:12:01,110 --> 00:11:58,959
and all these other places so i was

345
00:12:04,949 --> 00:12:01,120
handing it out and that

346
00:12:07,910 --> 00:12:04,959
started very interesting uh

347
00:12:09,110 --> 00:12:07,920
some interesting events of my life but

348
00:12:10,790 --> 00:12:09,120
that was really how

349
00:12:12,230 --> 00:12:10,800
how i was willing to kind of address

350
00:12:14,310 --> 00:12:12,240
things so that was really the big start

351
00:12:15,750 --> 00:12:14,320
i was always a researcher i was always

352
00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:15,760
reading things and i remember at the

353
00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:16,560
time

354
00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:18,800
i was reading michael rivera who does

355
00:12:22,829 --> 00:12:20,720
what really happened.com

356
00:12:25,670 --> 00:12:22,839
who is probably for me one of the more

357
00:12:28,710 --> 00:12:25,680
important alternative

358
00:12:29,269 --> 00:12:28,720
uh analysts or independent voices out

359
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:29,279
there

360
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:31,600
but he had a website called rancho run a

361
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:32,480
mukka which is

362
00:12:36,829 --> 00:12:34,320
for that's how far back i go and all

363
00:12:38,069 --> 00:12:36,839
that stuff so that's really the start so

364
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:38,079
then

365
00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:39,200
you know i started researching

366
00:12:43,910 --> 00:12:41,519
parapolitics let me ask you this

367
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:43,920
because you know i've noticed that and i

368
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:44,959
know this for myself

369
00:12:51,590 --> 00:12:48,959
but there's this stripping away

370
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:51,600
of the layers of the onion that i think

371
00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:53,040
a lot of us go through

372
00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:55,519
you know so you start i can only imagine

373
00:12:59,030 --> 00:12:57,120
such a great story i mean you're an

374
00:12:59,750 --> 00:12:59,040
intern you're so impressionable like you

375
00:13:01,750 --> 00:12:59,760
say you're

376
00:13:03,990 --> 00:13:01,760
laughing at yourself for being naive you

377
00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:04,000
know and we can all relate to

378
00:13:08,629 --> 00:13:05,600
starting a career just doing what they

379
00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:08,639
say and kind of following the numbers

380
00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:10,800
what was it like though as you got i

381
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:12,480
mean the stuff you're doing right now

382
00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:15,839
is so so far out there i imagine that

383
00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:20,320
yourself back then couldn't even imagine

384
00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:23,680
you getting to where you're at now with

385
00:13:25,750 --> 00:13:24,160
this stuff

386
00:13:27,509 --> 00:13:25,760
in terms of being far out there i can

387
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:27,519
relate to that my for myself you know i

388
00:13:29,829 --> 00:13:28,320
was always like

389
00:13:31,350 --> 00:13:29,839
i would have laughed at this stuff 10

390
00:13:34,790 --> 00:13:31,360
years ago and now it's like

391
00:13:36,470 --> 00:13:34,800
so real i think so i was you know i was

392
00:13:37,750 --> 00:13:36,480
like always listening to people talking

393
00:13:39,189 --> 00:13:37,760
about jfk

394
00:13:41,430 --> 00:13:39,199
so that was probably my thing and i

395
00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:41,440
always thought they were kind of kooky

396
00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:44,320
and like all this this thing and but now

397
00:13:46,949 --> 00:13:45,600
i think they were all right

398
00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:46,959
and i didn't understand the kind of

399
00:13:52,150 --> 00:13:49,360
secret society element the elite

400
00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:52,160
mechanisms of control through the media

401
00:13:54,389 --> 00:13:53,920
so i had to learn really a lot of that

402
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:54,399
stuff

403
00:13:59,990 --> 00:13:58,320
firsthand and uh yeah so i mean i was

404
00:14:00,870 --> 00:14:00,000
super naive i was i believed everything

405
00:14:04,629 --> 00:14:00,880
in my books i

406
00:14:06,230 --> 00:14:04,639
followed the path of high school college

407
00:14:08,069 --> 00:14:06,240
you know these are the state tiers of

408
00:14:10,870 --> 00:14:08,079
success and

409
00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:10,880
you know i i saw a whole different story

410
00:14:15,509 --> 00:14:13,040
it's pretty amazing too because

411
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:15,519
when i was in dc i i had very close

412
00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:17,199
friends who worked in these law

413
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:20,480
firms and i actually knew like the

414
00:14:23,110 --> 00:14:21,360
attorney

415
00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:23,120
for jeffrey epstein before he was

416
00:14:26,949 --> 00:14:24,720
murdered like

417
00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:26,959
i used to go over to their law offices

418
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:28,639
on fridays for free beer

419
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:30,000
and like see all these guys reed

420
00:14:33,670 --> 00:14:32,160
weingarten so i saw i mean i just saw a

421
00:14:34,949 --> 00:14:33,680
lot of stuff percent i know people who

422
00:14:40,470 --> 00:14:34,959
worked at

423
00:14:43,670 --> 00:14:40,480
uh uh the plato conchiras who was

424
00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:43,680
uh it was uh lewinsky's

425
00:14:46,629 --> 00:14:45,040
attorney so i used to go to plato

426
00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:46,639
concerns his office i because all my

427
00:14:51,189 --> 00:14:48,240
friends we were all interns

428
00:14:52,470 --> 00:14:51,199
you know so we were all just kind of in

429
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:52,480
the same kind of tier

430
00:14:57,030 --> 00:14:55,199
reality at that time so anyway that's

431
00:14:59,829 --> 00:14:57,040
why like i doubted epstein died

432
00:15:00,790 --> 00:14:59,839
committed suicide too but yeah these

433
00:15:01,990 --> 00:15:00,800
things do happen

434
00:15:03,269 --> 00:15:02,000
these things really do happen and

435
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:03,279
there's a lot and i never really kind of

436
00:15:07,910 --> 00:15:05,120
considered the occult which

437
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:07,920
you know is really something that i

438
00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:09,440
really started out with like nobody

439
00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:12,160
really wanted to talk about a cult

440
00:15:18,949 --> 00:15:16,320
ideas influencing political events or

441
00:15:20,389 --> 00:15:18,959
the culture at least at my time you know

442
00:15:20,710 --> 00:15:20,399
a lot of people would kind of dismiss

443
00:15:24,790 --> 00:15:20,720
you

444
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:24,800
called a conspiracy theory as theirs but

445
00:15:29,910 --> 00:15:27,120
my books i've really tried to

446
00:15:31,030 --> 00:15:29,920
very rigorously cite them and try to

447
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:31,040
maintain

448
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:34,240
a higher academic standard but

449
00:15:36,710 --> 00:15:35,680
well i think that's what comes through

450
00:15:39,350 --> 00:15:36,720
and i think that's what kind of

451
00:15:42,389 --> 00:15:39,360
intrigues people is you have that

452
00:15:43,749 --> 00:15:42,399
kind of uh lawyer sensibility and as you

453
00:15:44,949 --> 00:15:43,759
give more of the background you can

454
00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:44,959
understand

455
00:15:47,829 --> 00:15:46,000
you know i think a lot of people don't

456
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:47,839
even understand the different jobs that

457
00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:48,959
attorneys do

458
00:15:53,590 --> 00:15:50,959
and you know just you're kind of giving

459
00:15:55,269 --> 00:15:53,600
us an insight into how you think

460
00:15:56,790 --> 00:15:55,279
and i think some of that is from your

461
00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:56,800
legal training now

462
00:16:00,389 --> 00:15:59,600
tell me more though about the occult

463
00:16:03,030 --> 00:16:00,399
thing because

464
00:16:03,990 --> 00:16:03,040
you know one of the things i want to i

465
00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:04,000
feel like is

466
00:16:09,189 --> 00:16:06,720
kind of hanging in the shadows here

467
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:09,199
because when i originally contacted you

468
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:11,519
i told you this project i'm working on

469
00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:13,519
and it's by evil matters

470
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:16,079
and it's really this idea that uh it's

471
00:16:19,030 --> 00:16:16,800
kind of like

472
00:16:21,269 --> 00:16:19,040
the the you know as i described in this

473
00:16:23,670 --> 00:16:21,279
show you know kind of

474
00:16:24,949 --> 00:16:23,680
alternative science or frontier science

475
00:16:27,430 --> 00:16:24,959
and frontier

476
00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:27,440
spirituality and by that i mean you know

477
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:28,800
i think there's a lot of

478
00:16:32,310 --> 00:16:31,839
things that are happening in science

479
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:32,320
that is

480
00:16:38,389 --> 00:16:36,000
pointing towards this larger

481
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:38,399
more expansive view of consciousness

482
00:16:42,069 --> 00:16:40,000
easy one to point to is near-death

483
00:16:43,509 --> 00:16:42,079
experience you know or reincarnation

484
00:16:45,910 --> 00:16:43,519
either one

485
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:45,920
solid science you can point to i think

486
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:47,920
you know 200 peer-reviewed papers at

487
00:16:51,590 --> 00:16:50,240
least a near-death experience and the

488
00:16:53,110 --> 00:16:51,600
work that's done been done in

489
00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:53,120
reincarnation particularly at the

490
00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:54,560
university of virginia

491
00:16:58,069 --> 00:16:56,880
is just stellar work that no one

492
00:17:01,189 --> 00:16:58,079
challenges that

493
00:17:05,110 --> 00:17:03,269
position not really position just what

494
00:17:06,309 --> 00:17:05,120
i've observed over the last 10 years

495
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:06,319
that i've done that

496
00:17:11,909 --> 00:17:09,600
is that has shifted the dialogue

497
00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:11,919
from you know we're going to talk about

498
00:17:15,029 --> 00:17:13,439
culture a lot i think because when you

499
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:15,039
talk about west memphis 3

500
00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:16,880
that's what i love about that case it

501
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:18,720
pops us right in the middle of this

502
00:17:22,949 --> 00:17:21,360
and it it starts splitting up some of

503
00:17:25,270 --> 00:17:22,959
these things like the

504
00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:25,280
the occulted satanic culture and how

505
00:17:28,390 --> 00:17:26,000
there's this

506
00:17:29,590 --> 00:17:28,400
wink and nod and do what they'll wilt

507
00:17:31,669 --> 00:17:29,600
and i can lie

508
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:31,679
cheat steal do whatever i have to i can

509
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:33,360
deceive you because that's part of it

510
00:17:36,549 --> 00:17:34,320
man you know

511
00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:36,559
but then at the same time that we never

512
00:17:40,630 --> 00:17:37,440
talk about

513
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:40,640
is there is this twin part of it that

514
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:40,960
just

515
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:44,640
isn't exposed and that is the atheistic

516
00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:47,440
uh urobiological robot and meaningless

517
00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:49,120
universe part of science

518
00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:50,960
so you go to neuroscience and it's still

519
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:52,559
i mean i repeat this every freaking show

520
00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:54,480
but i can't help it

521
00:17:59,110 --> 00:17:57,360
they don't believe that you have not

522
00:18:00,310 --> 00:17:59,120
only free will they don't believe that

523
00:18:01,909 --> 00:18:00,320
you have

524
00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:01,919
experience they don't believe that

525
00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:04,080
consciousness is real and when i say

526
00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:04,480
that

527
00:18:09,909 --> 00:18:08,960
an illusion it's a byproduct of the

528
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:09,919
brain

529
00:18:13,750 --> 00:18:11,919
and when you get stuck in that

530
00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:13,760
materialistic paradigm and science is

531
00:18:16,789 --> 00:18:15,360
built on that psychology's built on that

532
00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:16,799
neuroscience and you know all this

533
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:19,440
i'm just repeating it you can't even

534
00:18:23,350 --> 00:18:21,360
begin to process

535
00:18:24,950 --> 00:18:23,360
satanic ritual abuse however you're

536
00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:24,960
going to pull that apart

537
00:18:28,470 --> 00:18:27,760
you would say what i've heard religious

538
00:18:31,750 --> 00:18:28,480
scholars

539
00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:31,760
tell me on this show it doesn't matter

540
00:18:34,950 --> 00:18:33,760
if it's true it only matters what they

541
00:18:37,909 --> 00:18:34,960
believe

542
00:18:39,510 --> 00:18:37,919
and i'm like well no you you got that

543
00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:39,520
completely backwards

544
00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:42,480
the first thing that matters is is there

545
00:18:47,590 --> 00:18:45,520
this extended realm of consciousness

546
00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:47,600
and are they somehow connecting with

547
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:49,039
some benevolent force

548
00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:51,600
in that realm you may not you may

549
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:52,400
dismiss that

550
00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:54,240
but at least you gotta look at the

551
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:56,160
evidence for that and before you dismiss

552
00:18:58,390 --> 00:18:57,840
it and say well that can't possibly be

553
00:19:00,470 --> 00:18:58,400
true

554
00:19:02,710 --> 00:19:00,480
but the funny thing about our culture is

555
00:19:04,710 --> 00:19:02,720
we have this dual thing going on

556
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:04,720
where both are operating where there's

557
00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:05,760
this you know

558
00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:09,360
johnny depp uh duncan trussell wink in a

559
00:19:13,830 --> 00:19:10,080
nod

560
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:13,840
you know of course it's all happening

561
00:19:18,070 --> 00:19:16,559
you know in this extended realm and then

562
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:18,080
you got this other side of

563
00:19:21,669 --> 00:19:20,240
neil degrasse tyson you know of course

564
00:19:23,350 --> 00:19:21,679
consciousness is an illusion

565
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:23,360
and then here's the shadow part that i

566
00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:24,480
just got to get out there because i

567
00:19:28,390 --> 00:19:26,320
don't want it to be like hanging is

568
00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:28,400
you have the the religious part and the

569
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:29,440
christian part

570
00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:31,520
and that i think when we do an interview

571
00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:32,880
like this and i talk to you and that's

572
00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:35,600
why i'd rather get it out up front

573
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:37,360
there's going to be a lot of people who

574
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:39,280
are going to watch the movie

575
00:19:43,110 --> 00:19:42,160
read the book and they're going to be oh

576
00:19:45,590 --> 00:19:43,120
okay

577
00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:45,600
i get it this guy has a christian agenda

578
00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:48,080
and he's going to start

579
00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:50,160
preaching to me and telling me his

580
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:52,880
narrowly defined understanding of

581
00:20:00,150 --> 00:19:56,000
how i need to relate to

582
00:20:01,110 --> 00:20:00,160
ultimate thing that's most important in

583
00:20:03,909 --> 00:20:01,120
everyone's life

584
00:20:05,350 --> 00:20:03,919
is their their soul you know and what

585
00:20:08,310 --> 00:20:05,360
that soul means to them

586
00:20:10,470 --> 00:20:08,320
so i've thrown a lot on the table there

587
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:10,480
but

588
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:12,240
i'm impressed because i think you

589
00:20:16,630 --> 00:20:14,640
covered the kind of uh

590
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:16,640
little the you know in a general sense

591
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:18,640
the the groups that are influencing the

592
00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:19,520
culture

593
00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:21,280
you've got the kind of occultist you've

594
00:20:27,029 --> 00:20:23,440
got the material of scientists

595
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:27,039
like negras tyson or stephen pinker

596
00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:29,280
or krauss or some of these other guys or

597
00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:31,280
the the darwinists

598
00:20:34,789 --> 00:20:33,360
and then you know you can put me right

599
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:34,799
in that christian camp i'm comfortable

600
00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:35,760
with that

601
00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:39,440
i don't really think that i'm uh

602
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:43,360
i'm promoting a real uh specific

603
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:45,360
kind of sectarian agenda within

604
00:20:48,950 --> 00:20:47,039
christianity but i definitely am a

605
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:48,960
christian 100 percent

606
00:20:53,029 --> 00:20:51,760
okay so let's just touch on that for

607
00:20:56,549 --> 00:20:53,039
just a second

608
00:21:00,070 --> 00:20:56,559
before we go there though i did say

609
00:21:01,590 --> 00:21:00,080
i want to i want to visit your vimeo

610
00:21:03,430 --> 00:21:01,600
channel and show people some of the

611
00:21:04,549 --> 00:21:03,440
videos on there and i want you to talk

612
00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:04,559
about that

613
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:06,240
and then we're going to talk about a

614
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:08,320
couple of interviews i've done

615
00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:10,799
one with opperman who i think has a

616
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:11,679
fantastic

617
00:21:14,710 --> 00:21:13,360
show man it's such a go-to show he's

618
00:21:15,669 --> 00:21:14,720
just got to get rid of those trashy

619
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:15,679
commercials

620
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:17,120
the only way i can listen to it is with

621
00:21:21,190 --> 00:21:19,679
my little player my hand my thumb right

622
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:21,200
there

623
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:23,200
okay now come on ed give me something

624
00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:24,480
good but i want to talk about

625
00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:26,480
opperman and then i also want to talk

626
00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:28,559
about russ dizdar you know russ

627
00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:31,760
sure yeah okay so two guys two guys i've

628
00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:34,000
interviewed and i i because i want to

629
00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:36,000
get that christian thing handled

630
00:21:40,310 --> 00:21:38,640
and then i want to dive into uh damian

631
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:40,320
echols because i think that'll get us

632
00:21:43,270 --> 00:21:41,280
right back to

633
00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:43,280
all these things we're going i want you

634
00:21:48,070 --> 00:21:45,840
to tell people a little bit about

635
00:21:49,990 --> 00:21:48,080
some of the work that you've done on

636
00:21:50,950 --> 00:21:50,000
vimeo because you've taken the books

637
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:50,960
that i

638
00:21:56,789 --> 00:21:54,960
showed and they've done some really cool

639
00:21:58,630 --> 00:21:56,799
videos and some of them have you know a

640
00:22:01,029 --> 00:21:58,640
lot of slideshow kind of stuff

641
00:22:02,630 --> 00:22:01,039
but you have some great video in there

642
00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:02,640
you have a really good voice for this

643
00:22:07,430 --> 00:22:04,320
stuff you make it work

644
00:22:08,230 --> 00:22:07,440
and you can list you can watch here if

645
00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:08,240
you're watching

646
00:22:11,669 --> 00:22:11,120
but some of the stuff you know johnny

647
00:22:13,909 --> 00:22:11,679
depp

648
00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:13,919
and eccles and then you got stuff on the

649
00:22:17,669 --> 00:22:16,000
process church so

650
00:22:20,149 --> 00:22:17,679
tell us a little bit about what's going

651
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:20,159
on on vimeo and then i have another one

652
00:22:24,789 --> 00:22:22,320
that i watched last night

653
00:22:26,149 --> 00:22:24,799
children of the beast a video you did on

654
00:22:28,230 --> 00:22:26,159
aleister crowley

655
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:28,240
so tell folks a little bit about how

656
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:29,200
these movies

657
00:22:33,830 --> 00:22:32,159
came to happen and you know how you feel

658
00:22:35,350 --> 00:22:33,840
about them

659
00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:35,360
well they were kind of outgrowths from

660
00:22:39,669 --> 00:22:37,840
my books so i've done

661
00:22:41,430 --> 00:22:39,679
uh other than the smiley face killers

662
00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:41,440
which is about this i think it's one of

663
00:22:45,270 --> 00:22:42,480
the most important

664
00:22:47,029 --> 00:22:45,280
true crime stories that hasn't really

665
00:22:48,070 --> 00:22:47,039
been told nationally which is the

666
00:22:50,070 --> 00:22:48,080
abduction

667
00:22:52,230 --> 00:22:50,080
and disappearance of young men for the

668
00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:52,240
last 25 years not only in the us but all

669
00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:53,440
over the world

670
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:56,240
but uh the other ones the children of

671
00:22:58,149 --> 00:22:56,720
the beast

672
00:22:59,350 --> 00:22:58,159
was an outgrowth of my book and i really

673
00:23:00,549 --> 00:22:59,360
just wanted to kind of make a more

674
00:23:02,549 --> 00:23:00,559
visual

675
00:23:05,029 --> 00:23:02,559
approach to that so that people could

676
00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:05,039
see that because a lot of the books

677
00:23:08,310 --> 00:23:07,360
if you put too much in too many images

678
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:08,320
in there

679
00:23:12,789 --> 00:23:10,799
it distracts from the narrative but the

680
00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:12,799
if you kind of put it into a documentary

681
00:23:15,590 --> 00:23:13,840
format

682
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:15,600
i think people also can learn and see

683
00:23:18,549 --> 00:23:17,039
things uh

684
00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:18,559
visually much better obviously in the

685
00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:20,720
documentary so children of the beast

686
00:23:23,430 --> 00:23:21,440
alistair

687
00:23:24,549 --> 00:23:23,440
prophet of evil aleister crowley 9 11 in

688
00:23:26,149 --> 00:23:24,559
the new world order

689
00:23:28,870 --> 00:23:26,159
is another documentary and then a colt

690
00:23:31,590 --> 00:23:28,880
hollywood vol 2 is out there so i've got

691
00:23:33,190 --> 00:23:31,600
five full length documentaries my

692
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:33,200
children of the beast documentary is

693
00:23:36,549 --> 00:23:35,520
beyond uh full length it's three and a

694
00:23:39,830 --> 00:23:36,559
half hours of

695
00:23:41,669 --> 00:23:39,840
uh things of of events that people say

696
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:41,679
aren't happening which is

697
00:23:45,830 --> 00:23:44,640
men disappearing found in water uh

698
00:23:48,310 --> 00:23:45,840
adjudged to

699
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:48,320
accidental death over and over again

700
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:49,679
hundreds of times

701
00:23:53,830 --> 00:23:52,080
but uh so that's how those really came

702
00:23:57,029 --> 00:23:53,840
about and

703
00:23:58,470 --> 00:23:57,039
uh that's really the so the like

704
00:23:59,190 --> 00:23:58,480
children of the beast was really an

705
00:24:02,310 --> 00:23:59,200
outgrowth

706
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:02,320
of my research into crowley which was an

707
00:24:07,590 --> 00:24:05,520
outgrowth of my research into 911

708
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:07,600
which was just a general growth of my

709
00:24:12,310 --> 00:24:09,440
interest in pure politics or

710
00:24:12,870 --> 00:24:12,320
occult politics maybe um i like all

711
00:24:14,549 --> 00:24:12,880
those things

712
00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:14,559
like that's how that's how my interest

713
00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:16,240
in the smiley face killers came about is

714
00:24:19,590 --> 00:24:18,240
because i kept seeing this symbol in my

715
00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:19,600
research into crowley

716
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:21,360
and then it led me to think okay well

717
00:24:24,070 --> 00:24:22,960
what are the smiley face killers is this

718
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:24,080
an urban myth

719
00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:25,760
and then i started studying and then i

720
00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:27,520
started seeing people

721
00:24:31,590 --> 00:24:30,080
or young men disappear and end up in

722
00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:31,600
water the first one i studied was a guy

723
00:24:36,549 --> 00:24:33,440
by the name of joy the butte

724
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:36,559
out of columbus ohio and then i just was

725
00:24:39,990 --> 00:24:37,440
watching it and

726
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:40,000
my chief researcher jim smith has really

727
00:24:43,750 --> 00:24:42,000
been on the story i think he's the best

728
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:43,760
researcher out there on the subject

729
00:24:47,350 --> 00:24:45,120
there are multiple ones

730
00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:47,360
gilbertson and gannon from for the

731
00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:48,400
original

732
00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:50,720
kind of inquirers into the study they

733
00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:52,000
wrote a book called case studies of

734
00:24:55,669 --> 00:24:53,360
forensic science

735
00:24:56,630 --> 00:24:55,679
forensic drowning the interesting thing

736
00:24:59,590 --> 00:24:56,640
to me

737
00:24:59,990 --> 00:24:59,600
that i was totally unaware of is that

738
00:25:03,029 --> 00:25:00,000
you

739
00:25:05,110 --> 00:25:03,039
connect the smaller tails the

740
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:05,120
smiley face killer thing that a lot of

741
00:25:06,950 --> 00:25:06,400
people have kind of heard about and

742
00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:06,960
don't know

743
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:09,200
kind of what to do with it and you've

744
00:25:13,909 --> 00:25:10,880
connected it to

745
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:13,919
some of these same strange occult

746
00:25:19,909 --> 00:25:14,720
signaling

747
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:19,919
is funny because ever since you mention

748
00:25:23,590 --> 00:25:20,400
it

749
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:23,600
i start seeing that smiley face in art

750
00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:27,520
and t-shirts in all the

751
00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:30,720
right slash wrong places and i like how

752
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:32,480
you're very careful

753
00:25:36,710 --> 00:25:34,240
again you have this kind of investigator

754
00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:36,720
sensibility just the facts ma'am

755
00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:38,720
in terms of you build your case slowly

756
00:25:42,310 --> 00:25:40,720
you don't jump to a lot of conclusions

757
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:42,320
and even when we're going to talk about

758
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:44,720
uh crowley and talk about the west

759
00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:46,080
memphis three you know you're

760
00:25:49,110 --> 00:25:48,400
very you're very careful to build your

761
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:49,120
your case

762
00:25:53,190 --> 00:25:51,840
counselor so let me just touch on the

763
00:25:53,830 --> 00:25:53,200
christian thing because because here's i

764
00:25:55,590 --> 00:25:53,840
think the

765
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:55,600
the catch that and then i'm gonna let it

766
00:25:59,830 --> 00:25:56,960
go but

767
00:26:00,710 --> 00:25:59,840
there is this sense among a lot of

768
00:26:04,149 --> 00:26:00,720
people

769
00:26:07,430 --> 00:26:04,159
that if someone is christian

770
00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:07,440
that they are they're so even

771
00:26:11,430 --> 00:26:10,240
agenda-driven and i'm guilty of accusing

772
00:26:12,470 --> 00:26:11,440
christians of this too because i think

773
00:26:16,870 --> 00:26:12,480
christians

774
00:26:20,149 --> 00:26:16,880
do not accept their culpability

775
00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:20,159
in some of this stuff and culpability in

776
00:26:23,430 --> 00:26:20,880
the sense that

777
00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:23,440
just how the average person processes

778
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:24,400
this and so

779
00:26:29,110 --> 00:26:28,080
really in this day with the catholic

780
00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:29,120
church

781
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:32,720
outed as systematic sexual abuse from

782
00:26:37,190 --> 00:26:35,279
the highest level directed from the pope

783
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:37,200
you're going to tell me that this folds

784
00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:38,640
right into

785
00:26:45,669 --> 00:26:42,320
you know jesus on the cross son of god

786
00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:45,679
screw you and and further i mean

787
00:26:51,269 --> 00:26:48,880
what crowley is saying and this is what

788
00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:51,279
this is especially the reason i think we

789
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:52,000
need to pull

790
00:26:56,870 --> 00:26:54,960
the christian part about it is that one

791
00:26:59,350 --> 00:26:56,880
way to read

792
00:27:00,549 --> 00:26:59,360
the crowley narrative the crowley

793
00:27:02,789 --> 00:27:00,559
biography

794
00:27:05,669 --> 00:27:02,799
and i think it's totally the wrong way

795
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:05,679
but it's the way they keep doing it is

796
00:27:10,430 --> 00:27:07,760
he was rebelling against it just

797
00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:10,440
incredibly

798
00:27:16,230 --> 00:27:13,520
overbearing christian father

799
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:16,240
who really was kind of a kooky anyone

800
00:27:18,310 --> 00:27:17,520
would say you know it's taken the

801
00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:18,320
christian thing

802
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:20,399
way to this kooky extreme no birthday

803
00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:22,320
parties no presents no christmas

804
00:27:28,470 --> 00:27:25,520
you know all this cultish kind of stuff

805
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:28,480
and that of course you know then we can

806
00:27:31,750 --> 00:27:30,480
pack it back into the psychology you

807
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:31,760
know oh you know

808
00:27:36,549 --> 00:27:34,799
and then we never have to deal with

809
00:27:38,149 --> 00:27:36,559
the real stuff that's going on and i

810
00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:38,159
would maintain and then i'll let you

811
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:39,760
respond to it maybe i'll play a couple

812
00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:40,640
of clips from ed

813
00:27:44,470 --> 00:27:42,960
and and russ dizdar and then we'll we'll

814
00:27:45,430 --> 00:27:44,480
move on but i'd say the same kind of

815
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:45,440
thing with the rest

816
00:27:48,789 --> 00:27:48,000
west memphis three when you break that

817
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:48,799
down

818
00:27:52,630 --> 00:27:51,120
it's gonna if people haven't heard your

819
00:27:54,149 --> 00:27:52,640
stuff before it's gonna be stunning

820
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:54,159
because you stack the evidence and it's

821
00:27:58,549 --> 00:27:55,440
just overwhelming

822
00:28:01,510 --> 00:27:58,559
but people are still gonna process it as

823
00:28:01,990 --> 00:28:01,520
oh man satanic panic those damn

824
00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:02,000
christians

825
00:28:08,710 --> 00:28:05,120
are at it again they can't you know

826
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:08,720
so in general go ahead and respond

827
00:28:11,909 --> 00:28:10,480
i think that's fair i mean i'm glad i'm

828
00:28:15,190 --> 00:28:11,919
glad that you brought up the catholic

829
00:28:17,590 --> 00:28:15,200
church because that's the exemplar that

830
00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:17,600
antagonists of what they believe

831
00:28:21,190 --> 00:28:18,399
christianity

832
00:28:22,870 --> 00:28:21,200
even in crowley too who's he was part of

833
00:28:26,389 --> 00:28:22,880
the exclusive brethren

834
00:28:27,750 --> 00:28:26,399
uh by uh darby who may argue isn't even

835
00:28:31,029 --> 00:28:27,760
an authentic christian

836
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:31,039
so he's definitely within this

837
00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:34,480
wide broad tent of what's defined as

838
00:28:38,789 --> 00:28:35,600
christianity

839
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:38,799
but that's very generalist kind of way

840
00:28:41,789 --> 00:28:40,480
to put it i don't think darby was i mean

841
00:28:44,149 --> 00:28:41,799
he was a discont

842
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:44,159
dispensationalist are all kinds of

843
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:46,080
problems with this theology

844
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:47,840
i mean some people have written stuff

845
00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:49,200
that this guy a lot some of these

846
00:28:53,510 --> 00:28:51,360
christians are very christian leaders in

847
00:28:56,070 --> 00:28:53,520
different sects are very comfortable

848
00:28:57,750 --> 00:28:56,080
with the occult supposedly like darby i

849
00:28:59,190 --> 00:28:57,760
need to research that more but also

850
00:29:02,230 --> 00:28:59,200
joseph smith

851
00:29:04,230 --> 00:29:02,240
the guy who started the watchtower the

852
00:29:06,470 --> 00:29:04,240
jehovah's witnesses there's all kinds of

853
00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:06,480
problems so

854
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:10,080
it's you got i think that you uh

855
00:29:13,750 --> 00:29:11,760
and i think that this actually happens

856
00:29:15,750 --> 00:29:13,760
often is like you can

857
00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:15,760
look at the gospel as a kind of

858
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:17,360
caricature and then say

859
00:29:21,269 --> 00:29:19,360
you're just gonna throw that agenda on

860
00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:21,279
people i know what happens and that's

861
00:29:25,269 --> 00:29:21,919
fine

862
00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:25,279
i don't even describe myself as a as a

863
00:29:27,990 --> 00:29:26,080
kind of

864
00:29:29,590 --> 00:29:28,000
sectarian christian i'm really just a

865
00:29:33,990 --> 00:29:29,600
bible believing christian

866
00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:34,000
so i think that the real basis of any

867
00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:36,080
proper definition of that faith would be

868
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:38,080
to see what's in the gospels

869
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:40,320
and what input is in paul writing paul's

870
00:29:43,029 --> 00:29:42,000
writings and that should be the basis

871
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:43,039
for not the church

872
00:29:46,230 --> 00:29:45,360
the catholic church is hyper corrupt i

873
00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:46,240
mean

874
00:29:49,029 --> 00:29:47,600
the kind of things that have been gone

875
00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:49,039
in there and the doctrines that are

876
00:29:51,029 --> 00:29:49,760
there

877
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:51,039
and even crowley himself it's

878
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:52,320
interesting you bring crowley up he

879
00:29:55,669 --> 00:29:54,240
actually favored catholicism

880
00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:55,679
he actually said that the real enemy

881
00:30:00,630 --> 00:29:57,919
were the protestants and the jews

882
00:30:01,269 --> 00:30:00,640
so he had this kind of like uh tolerance

883
00:30:03,909 --> 00:30:01,279
for it

884
00:30:05,750 --> 00:30:03,919
and even some of his religion that he

885
00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:05,760
adopted he took from orthodox

886
00:30:11,990 --> 00:30:07,840
christianity so his whole cult

887
00:30:13,430 --> 00:30:12,000
uh gnostic maths is from orthodox church

888
00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:13,440
and he absorbed a lot of christian

889
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:15,120
teachings and twisted it but yeah you're

890
00:30:19,110 --> 00:30:15,600
right

891
00:30:20,149 --> 00:30:19,120
so darby himself so i think that these

892
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:20,159
critiques

893
00:30:26,549 --> 00:30:23,440
are are common they're they're fair but

894
00:30:28,389 --> 00:30:26,559
i think that they can be addressed

895
00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:28,399
and that's fine you can look at me you

896
00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:29,840
can look at me through whatever lens you

897
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:31,120
want but if you want to look at the

898
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:31,679
facts

899
00:30:34,789 --> 00:30:33,200
that i've written about in those books

900
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:34,799
they're all fairly long

901
00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:37,200
they're all footnoted they're almost

902
00:30:41,510 --> 00:30:38,240
none of my

903
00:30:41,830 --> 00:30:41,520
uh subjective opinions they're really

904
00:30:43,269 --> 00:30:41,840
just

905
00:30:44,950 --> 00:30:43,279
reference points they're properly

906
00:30:48,070 --> 00:30:44,960
referenced in my opinion

907
00:30:50,070 --> 00:30:48,080
and then you can take it as uh as what

908
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:50,080
you want to believe

909
00:30:54,549 --> 00:30:53,360
so you know right there we're cool

910
00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:54,559
but we're we're getting into

911
00:30:57,669 --> 00:30:56,320
epistemology right like why do you

912
00:31:01,269 --> 00:30:57,679
believe what you believe

913
00:31:03,590 --> 00:31:01,279
exactly to that end you know i pulled up

914
00:31:05,350 --> 00:31:03,600
the the interview that i did with ed and

915
00:31:08,389 --> 00:31:05,360
you know i just

916
00:31:10,149 --> 00:31:08,399
rattled his his his chain but i'm glad i

917
00:31:11,430 --> 00:31:10,159
did i mean i don't i don't mind pushing

918
00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:11,440
people in that way but

919
00:31:15,509 --> 00:31:14,080
what ed said that really kind of set me

920
00:31:16,549 --> 00:31:15,519
off and i pushed on him and then he got

921
00:31:17,909 --> 00:31:16,559
really pissed off

922
00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:17,919
is he's like why do you care what i

923
00:31:22,870 --> 00:31:20,080
believe why do you care what i believe

924
00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:22,880
and it's like you don't get it ed that

925
00:31:26,549 --> 00:31:24,080
is the whole thing

926
00:31:28,230 --> 00:31:26,559
you're entering this realm you're

927
00:31:30,950 --> 00:31:28,240
entering this battlefield

928
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:30,960
yes i care what you believe just like

929
00:31:34,470 --> 00:31:32,000
when i had hugh

930
00:31:35,269 --> 00:31:34,480
urban on dr hugh urban from ohio state

931
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:35,279
university

932
00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:37,679
telling me about his book on scientology

933
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:39,120
and how it didn't matter that

934
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:41,440
crowley and jack parsons were performing

935
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:43,440
a ritual in the desert to bring forth

936
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:44,960
the antichrist through the [\h__\h] of

937
00:31:48,630 --> 00:31:45,679
babylon

938
00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:48,640
and he said hey it doesn't matter if

939
00:31:52,149 --> 00:31:50,320
there's any reality to it it just

940
00:31:54,549 --> 00:31:52,159
matters you know what they believed

941
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:54,559
that is if christians don't understand

942
00:31:57,430 --> 00:31:56,240
that it matters what they believe and

943
00:32:01,509 --> 00:31:57,440
they better be ready

944
00:32:03,669 --> 00:32:01,519
to defend what they believe or as you do

945
00:32:06,149 --> 00:32:03,679
separate that and say i would like to

946
00:32:07,110 --> 00:32:06,159
keep my personal beliefs my relationship

947
00:32:10,710 --> 00:32:07,120
with god

948
00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:10,720
out of this and instead look at my 100

949
00:32:13,990 --> 00:32:12,320
pages of footnotes look at all my

950
00:32:17,430 --> 00:32:14,000
documents look at all that and just

951
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:17,440
take that on its own merit which is

952
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:20,640
you know i i again i'm not i don't care

953
00:32:23,269 --> 00:32:21,600
about ed's

954
00:32:24,630 --> 00:32:23,279
like i love his show and stuff it's just

955
00:32:27,909 --> 00:32:24,640
that lust thing

956
00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:27,919
i had russ disner on fantastic

957
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:29,840
tremendous amount of information

958
00:32:33,590 --> 00:32:32,240
because russ got what i was saying and

959
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:33,600
right from the beginning

960
00:32:37,269 --> 00:32:36,480
he was like no alex you want me to

961
00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:37,279
approach this

962
00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:40,640
with just giving you the the facts for

963
00:32:44,070 --> 00:32:42,799
satanic ritual abuse and i'm going to

964
00:32:45,590 --> 00:32:44,080
tell you about the victims

965
00:32:47,750 --> 00:32:45,600
i'm going to tell you about what we find

966
00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:47,760
when we go to these sites and what we

967
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:49,440
observe in terms of the

968
00:32:52,789 --> 00:32:51,840
you know inverted pentagram the language

969
00:32:55,669 --> 00:32:52,799
all this stuff

970
00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:55,679
and let that kind of tell the story and

971
00:33:02,710 --> 00:33:00,549
i mean we're all biased we all have our

972
00:33:05,830 --> 00:33:02,720
own outlook i mean i can't i can't

973
00:33:07,830 --> 00:33:05,840
detach that from my books

974
00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:07,840
my personality and the way i believe

975
00:33:12,789 --> 00:33:09,200
about things

976
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:12,799
so i think people requiring

977
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:15,200
total objectivity is unattainable so

978
00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:16,559
people like always say oh you're biased

979
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:17,919
well everybody's biased

980
00:33:25,269 --> 00:33:21,840
age race education gender

981
00:33:27,830 --> 00:33:25,279
politics so i think that that's fair

982
00:33:29,350 --> 00:33:27,840
really i think when you look at like i

983
00:33:30,630 --> 00:33:29,360
listen to the left and right i don't

984
00:33:31,669 --> 00:33:30,640
really mind as long as they're really

985
00:33:32,789 --> 00:33:31,679
being honest

986
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:32,799
that's really what i wanted they're

987
00:33:36,470 --> 00:33:34,720
being honest with the facts and that's

988
00:33:40,070 --> 00:33:36,480
really what i tried to have

989
00:33:41,830 --> 00:33:40,080
is an integrity towards the the reader

990
00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:41,840
or listener of my videos like this is

991
00:33:45,350 --> 00:33:43,440
just what they thought

992
00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:45,360
i don't do a lot of editorializing i

993
00:33:49,430 --> 00:33:46,720
really i mean unlike

994
00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:49,440
corporate media or cnn or msnbc and all

995
00:33:54,070 --> 00:33:50,240
this

996
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:54,080
trash that shouldn't exist so

997
00:33:58,230 --> 00:33:56,159
i don't mind defending i mean we can do

998
00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:58,240
a defense of christianity like what

999
00:34:03,029 --> 00:34:00,240
you think the true christianity is or

1000
00:34:04,789 --> 00:34:03,039
what is i don't stand with

1001
00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:04,799
some some of these people other people

1002
00:34:07,990 --> 00:34:06,240
would call christian

1003
00:34:09,829 --> 00:34:08,000
or what what would be the foundations of

1004
00:34:11,750 --> 00:34:09,839
that faith another show

1005
00:34:13,589 --> 00:34:11,760
that's and i don't think it's our show

1006
00:34:16,389 --> 00:34:13,599
it's not the show that we need to do

1007
00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:16,399
because the show that we need to do is

1008
00:34:20,389 --> 00:34:18,000
is on your books because

1009
00:34:21,669 --> 00:34:20,399
you already totally get where i'm coming

1010
00:34:24,310 --> 00:34:21,679
from and you picked up

1011
00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:24,320
the the trail immediately because you're

1012
00:34:27,349 --> 00:34:25,520
a good

1013
00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:27,359
attorney and you kind of saw through

1014
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:28,560
that but

1015
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:31,919
what i think is interesting is

1016
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:35,440
the link the path and the damien echols

1017
00:34:38,389 --> 00:34:36,240
thing is

1018
00:34:39,909 --> 00:34:38,399
just fascinating to me and we're going

1019
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:39,919
to approach it and tear it apart you

1020
00:34:43,990 --> 00:34:40,720
know

1021
00:34:44,710 --> 00:34:44,000
so i've been on the trail of the crowley

1022
00:34:48,389 --> 00:34:44,720
thing and i

1023
00:34:51,669 --> 00:34:48,399
i and i have friends who are in the

1024
00:34:54,869 --> 00:34:51,679
magical community if you will and

1025
00:34:55,750 --> 00:34:54,879
i have friends that are trying to make

1026
00:34:58,069 --> 00:34:55,760
sense of that

1027
00:34:59,430 --> 00:34:58,079
in a way that isn't crazy that i don't

1028
00:35:02,630 --> 00:34:59,440
think is evil

1029
00:35:03,349 --> 00:35:02,640
that i don't think is demonic i'm not

1030
00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:03,359
sure that

1031
00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:05,760
really works at the end of the game at

1032
00:35:08,950 --> 00:35:06,720
the end of the day

1033
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:08,960
in terms of my understanding of

1034
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:10,320
spirituality

1035
00:35:13,589 --> 00:35:12,480
but i respect that people have different

1036
00:35:16,230 --> 00:35:13,599
ways of doing that

1037
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:16,240
and i don't think that everyone who who

1038
00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:17,200
looks

1039
00:35:22,470 --> 00:35:20,560
in that direction is you know damned or

1040
00:35:25,589 --> 00:35:22,480
condemned or even doing it for

1041
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:25,599
for evil purposes so

1042
00:35:30,390 --> 00:35:28,480
with that you know i just want to get to

1043
00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:30,400
the facts because i did this interview

1044
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:34,240
uh for my book with a guy really like

1045
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:36,960
at forum borealis and i did it without

1046
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:37,920
and i started

1047
00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:40,560
you know going into the crowley test

1048
00:35:44,150 --> 00:35:41,680
what i call it like

1049
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:44,160
all i do is throw out crowley and when i

1050
00:35:46,470 --> 00:35:45,920
get the apologist for crowley i just

1051
00:35:48,310 --> 00:35:46,480
start

1052
00:35:50,310 --> 00:35:48,320
tearing him apart i go how does that

1053
00:35:51,190 --> 00:35:50,320
make any sense to you this is exactly

1054
00:35:52,790 --> 00:35:51,200
what he said

1055
00:35:55,270 --> 00:35:52,800
how does this make any sense to you he

1056
00:35:57,750 --> 00:35:55,280
did this he admitted to

1057
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:57,760
diddling little kids i mean he admitted

1058
00:36:00,790 --> 00:35:58,400
to that

1059
00:36:01,670 --> 00:36:00,800
he acknowledged that he had children

1060
00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:01,680
present

1061
00:36:06,550 --> 00:36:05,200
during his sex marriage encouraged it

1062
00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:06,560
right he encouraged it

1063
00:36:09,829 --> 00:36:09,440
so yeah but there's all this apologist

1064
00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:09,839
stuff

1065
00:36:12,870 --> 00:36:11,200
and that's the test that immediately

1066
00:36:14,790 --> 00:36:12,880
splits it but i'm kind of jumping ahead

1067
00:36:17,829 --> 00:36:14,800
because i want to go back to

1068
00:36:18,310 --> 00:36:17,839
people don't really know like uh i was

1069
00:36:22,069 --> 00:36:18,320
telling you

1070
00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:22,079
foreign borealis he's in uh he's in

1071
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:24,720
europe he's in norway and i'm rattling

1072
00:36:29,670 --> 00:36:26,880
off west memphis three and he's like

1073
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:29,680
what's west memphis three so if you

1074
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:30,880
can't just sketch out

1075
00:36:33,829 --> 00:36:32,560
the the big picture of west memphis

1076
00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:33,839
three and i think the other thing that

1077
00:36:35,990 --> 00:36:35,280
i'd love to have you talk about and then

1078
00:36:37,349 --> 00:36:36,000
i'm gonna

1079
00:36:39,349 --> 00:36:37,359
hit you with some more questions on the

1080
00:36:41,990 --> 00:36:39,359
details because they're fantastic

1081
00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:42,000
is what happened to west memphis three

1082
00:36:44,310 --> 00:36:42,400
because

1083
00:36:45,510 --> 00:36:44,320
you know that the general impression is

1084
00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:45,520
well they just found him

1085
00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:48,960
innocent that they didn't right

1086
00:36:52,630 --> 00:36:50,640
right so they're supposedly innocent

1087
00:36:53,589 --> 00:36:52,640
they were arrested for a crime they did

1088
00:36:57,270 --> 00:36:53,599
not commit

1089
00:37:00,470 --> 00:36:57,280
these are the standard kind of pr axioms

1090
00:37:02,550 --> 00:37:00,480
that you'll see in almost every uh

1091
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:02,560
article that is pro-west memphis three

1092
00:37:04,870 --> 00:37:03,920
which there really aren't any very

1093
00:37:07,829 --> 00:37:04,880
there's very few

1094
00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:07,839
anti-west memphis three out there but

1095
00:37:12,150 --> 00:37:08,720
the

1096
00:37:15,349 --> 00:37:12,160
true crime story really started in

1097
00:37:17,109 --> 00:37:15,359
may 5th of 1993 after three young boys

1098
00:37:19,270 --> 00:37:17,119
went disappeared they were eight years

1099
00:37:21,349 --> 00:37:19,280
old right in line with crowley's

1100
00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:21,359
teachings on human sacrifice

1101
00:37:24,150 --> 00:37:22,960
in magic endearing practice they were

1102
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:24,160
eight years old they went they

1103
00:37:28,470 --> 00:37:26,320
disappeared they were found the next day

1104
00:37:29,430 --> 00:37:28,480
in a ditch in a little area called robin

1105
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:29,440
hood hills

1106
00:37:34,829 --> 00:37:32,560
outside of west memphis west of

1107
00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:34,839
memphis tennessee across the mississippi

1108
00:37:39,030 --> 00:37:36,400
river and

1109
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:39,040
they were two were found later after a

1110
00:37:43,109 --> 00:37:41,440
medical examination to have been drowned

1111
00:37:45,030 --> 00:37:43,119
they were tied up in a very strange

1112
00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:45,040
manner ankle to

1113
00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:48,240
wrist one had bled out after his

1114
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:50,320
genitals had been removed

1115
00:37:55,109 --> 00:37:53,440
and so it was a particularly graphic and

1116
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:55,119
brutal crime there was blood all over

1117
00:37:57,910 --> 00:37:55,680
the place

1118
00:37:59,190 --> 00:37:57,920
it was never admitted into court but the

1119
00:38:01,750 --> 00:37:59,200
luminol tests were

1120
00:38:03,109 --> 00:38:01,760
taken and so there was blood all over

1121
00:38:06,310 --> 00:38:03,119
that area

1122
00:38:07,030 --> 00:38:06,320
and there was an outcry trying to figure

1123
00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:07,040
out who

1124
00:38:10,790 --> 00:38:09,760
who did this there was a suspect that

1125
00:38:13,109 --> 00:38:10,800
was mentioned by

1126
00:38:13,990 --> 00:38:13,119
a probation officer by the name of jerry

1127
00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:14,000
driver

1128
00:38:17,589 --> 00:38:15,839
who said that this young man by the name

1129
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:17,599
of damien eccles real name

1130
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:20,160
given name was michael hutcheson was his

1131
00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:21,839
born name but he changed his name to his

1132
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:23,520
stepfather's last name and took on the

1133
00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:24,960
name damien

1134
00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:26,560
and so he was investigated he was

1135
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:28,240
brought into

1136
00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:30,400
the uh and according to the court the

1137
00:38:34,630 --> 00:38:32,400
records that are on the police records

1138
00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:34,640
he was brought into the police office he

1139
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:36,400
was questioned he failed a polygraph

1140
00:38:39,190 --> 00:38:37,200
test

1141
00:38:40,390 --> 00:38:39,200
he said if i talk to my mom i'll tell

1142
00:38:41,829 --> 00:38:40,400
you everything

1143
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:41,839
if you let me talk to my mom so he

1144
00:38:43,990 --> 00:38:43,280
wouldn't talk to his mom then he clammed

1145
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:44,000
up

1146
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:46,079
but the investigative investigation

1147
00:38:49,030 --> 00:38:47,520
continued they didn't have enough

1148
00:38:51,030 --> 00:38:49,040
evidence to

1149
00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:51,040
arrest any of them until they brought in

1150
00:38:53,670 --> 00:38:52,720
another young man by the name of jesse

1151
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:53,680
miss kelly

1152
00:39:00,310 --> 00:38:57,920
on june 3rd of 1993 who then confessed

1153
00:39:01,349 --> 00:39:00,320
and implicated damien echols and jason

1154
00:39:03,430 --> 00:39:01,359
baldwin

1155
00:39:05,190 --> 00:39:03,440
and all three were arrested they were

1156
00:39:07,270 --> 00:39:05,200
tried separately

1157
00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:07,280
uh due to some evidence that was going

1158
00:39:13,270 --> 00:39:09,760
to be put in at trial

1159
00:39:16,230 --> 00:39:13,280
and 24 jurors found them both guilty

1160
00:39:17,589 --> 00:39:16,240
jamie uh damien echols was over 18. he

1161
00:39:21,270 --> 00:39:17,599
was given the capital

1162
00:39:25,109 --> 00:39:21,280
punishment uh and the other two

1163
00:39:27,270 --> 00:39:25,119
pretty much got life sentences um

1164
00:39:28,390 --> 00:39:27,280
and then there was the probably the key

1165
00:39:30,310 --> 00:39:28,400
lever

1166
00:39:32,550 --> 00:39:30,320
in creating doubt in the public's mind

1167
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:32,560
was the involvement of an hbo

1168
00:39:37,589 --> 00:39:35,520
documentary there was really a trilogy

1169
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:37,599
the first one was titled

1170
00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:40,640
paradise loss which came out in 1996 and

1171
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:42,400
then there were two others that

1172
00:39:47,109 --> 00:39:45,760
i think it was 2001 and maybe 2004 i

1173
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:47,119
can't remember the exact dates of when

1174
00:39:49,589 --> 00:39:48,000
those came out

1175
00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:49,599
but there were three and they cast doubt

1176
00:39:55,589 --> 00:39:52,480
upon the guilt the first one kind of was

1177
00:39:57,430 --> 00:39:55,599
somewhat of objective but

1178
00:39:59,670 --> 00:39:57,440
the second one kind of blamed one of the

1179
00:40:01,589 --> 00:39:59,680
stepfathers by the name of buyers and

1180
00:40:03,510 --> 00:40:01,599
then the third one pretty much

1181
00:40:04,630 --> 00:40:03,520
implicated another man by the name of

1182
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:04,640
terry hobbs

1183
00:40:09,910 --> 00:40:08,240
created kind of a furor it it snowballed

1184
00:40:12,069 --> 00:40:09,920
other people got involved celebrities

1185
00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:12,079
got involved money was raised

1186
00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:14,160
uh possibly they're saving a huge amount

1187
00:40:17,910 --> 00:40:16,000
of money 10 to 20 million dollars

1188
00:40:19,030 --> 00:40:17,920
probably the best appellate attorney out

1189
00:40:22,069 --> 00:40:19,040
there got

1190
00:40:25,510 --> 00:40:22,079
involved and put pressure on

1191
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:25,520
the state government through new laws

1192
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:26,400
that had been

1193
00:40:32,390 --> 00:40:30,000
created about dna testing and

1194
00:40:33,990 --> 00:40:32,400
there was going to be a hearing in 2011

1195
00:40:35,910 --> 00:40:34,000
i think in december

1196
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:35,920
to judge whether some of this dna could

1197
00:40:41,510 --> 00:40:38,160
be used but in august 2011

1198
00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:41,520
an agreement was reached and the three

1199
00:40:44,630 --> 00:40:43,440
pled guilty so they already had all been

1200
00:40:46,230 --> 00:40:44,640
found guilty

1201
00:40:47,990 --> 00:40:46,240
uh they pled guilty again to first

1202
00:40:49,109 --> 00:40:48,000
degree murder they admitted unsigned

1203
00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:49,119
documents

1204
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:50,720
you know they're adults now but through

1205
00:40:54,550 --> 00:40:53,040
the best attorneys really available

1206
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:54,560
that there was enough evidence to

1207
00:40:58,230 --> 00:40:56,400
possibly convict them again

1208
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:58,240
they went to court they were put under

1209
00:41:02,069 --> 00:41:00,480
10 years of probation they were let out

1210
00:41:04,069 --> 00:41:02,079
while professing innocence on something

1211
00:41:05,190 --> 00:41:04,079
called an alfred plea which is a supreme

1212
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:05,200
court case

1213
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:08,880
alford v

1214
00:41:13,510 --> 00:41:12,160
north carolina and

1215
00:41:15,349 --> 00:41:13,520
which allows you to profess your

1216
00:41:16,870 --> 00:41:15,359
innocence publicly while

1217
00:41:18,309 --> 00:41:16,880
pleading guilty so they're basically

1218
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:18,319
guilty they're still guilty and under

1219
00:41:22,150 --> 00:41:20,160
probation until next year

1220
00:41:24,390 --> 00:41:22,160
i asked you to keep it vanilla and man

1221
00:41:26,150 --> 00:41:24,400
you really kept it vanilla

1222
00:41:27,990 --> 00:41:26,160
because let me let me kind of pull you

1223
00:41:31,109 --> 00:41:28,000
into the real stuff like

1224
00:41:34,630 --> 00:41:31,119
anyone who goes and googles

1225
00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:34,640
west memphis three i'm not exaggerating

1226
00:41:38,470 --> 00:41:35,520
the first

1227
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:38,480
five you know first ten second ten third

1228
00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:39,200
ten

1229
00:41:42,790 --> 00:41:42,160
satanic panic satanic panic satanic

1230
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:42,800
panic

1231
00:41:47,910 --> 00:41:45,599
that's the only thing you hear about

1232
00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:47,920
this case it doesn't have anything to do

1233
00:41:51,270 --> 00:41:48,800
with the facts

1234
00:41:53,990 --> 00:41:51,280
it's all and that's what's going to be

1235
00:41:57,430 --> 00:41:54,000
so interesting as we dive into this

1236
00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:57,440
why did this become the kind of

1237
00:42:02,790 --> 00:42:00,720
poster child for satanic panic and

1238
00:42:03,750 --> 00:42:02,800
why do we think that that that's not

1239
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:03,760
accidental

1240
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:06,960
it's it's just it it can't be and all

1241
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:09,440
again all the wrong people wind up

1242
00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:11,440
lining up with this guy and

1243
00:42:16,790 --> 00:42:15,200
flashing you know satanic signs and all

1244
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:16,800
the rest with this guy

1245
00:42:21,190 --> 00:42:19,440
and statements yeah all kinds of stuff i

1246
00:42:23,510 --> 00:42:21,200
mean it's all over there so

1247
00:42:25,990 --> 00:42:23,520
why is it satanic panic if the guy's a

1248
00:42:27,910 --> 00:42:26,000
member of the oto while he's in jail

1249
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:27,920
while he's also just recently admitted

1250
00:42:33,829 --> 00:42:30,640
to be part of aaa with specifically

1251
00:42:36,150 --> 00:42:33,839
trace to crowley who wrote in his own

1252
00:42:37,430 --> 00:42:36,160
writing on vice that he was prosecuted

1253
00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:37,440
for his love of the knowledge of

1254
00:42:41,750 --> 00:42:39,599
aleister crowley specifically

1255
00:42:43,190 --> 00:42:41,760
and it just crowley's name pops up all

1256
00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:43,200
over us and that's really what piqued my

1257
00:42:47,430 --> 00:42:44,960
interest in this whole case

1258
00:42:48,950 --> 00:42:47,440
isn't it true william that we have

1259
00:42:52,150 --> 00:42:48,960
evidence of him

1260
00:42:53,349 --> 00:42:52,160
like performing a satanic ritual in a

1261
00:42:56,550 --> 00:42:53,359
burning

1262
00:42:58,950 --> 00:42:56,560
garage that he set on fire i mean

1263
00:43:00,390 --> 00:42:58,960
and then go ahead on that one well

1264
00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:00,400
that's true i mean that's in

1265
00:43:04,309 --> 00:43:02,160
that was an original case they say that

1266
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:04,319
he was prosecuted for wearing black

1267
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:06,880
but he was actually arrested before the

1268
00:43:10,710 --> 00:43:07,920
events

1269
00:43:12,550 --> 00:43:10,720
for kind of moonlighting i think in a

1270
00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:12,560
abandoned trailer

1271
00:43:15,990 --> 00:43:14,079
and then there was testimony of all

1272
00:43:18,069 --> 00:43:16,000
kinds of weird stuff he was doing

1273
00:43:19,990 --> 00:43:18,079
and there was other statements in the

1274
00:43:20,870 --> 00:43:20,000
court files which i included in my book

1275
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:20,880
about

1276
00:43:24,790 --> 00:43:22,560
them hanging out at stonehenge the

1277
00:43:27,670 --> 00:43:24,800
involvement i mean just crazy stuff

1278
00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:27,680
off the charts off the charts and you do

1279
00:43:31,190 --> 00:43:29,200
do an amazing job

1280
00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:31,200
in the film let me pause for a minute

1281
00:43:35,109 --> 00:43:32,640
let me see if i can pull that

1282
00:43:36,710 --> 00:43:35,119
pull that up the best type of human

1283
00:43:39,990 --> 00:43:36,720
sacrifice correct

1284
00:43:41,589 --> 00:43:40,000
yes sir okay but alex for crowley

1285
00:43:43,510 --> 00:43:41,599
doesn't have any particular significance

1286
00:43:45,270 --> 00:43:43,520
to you

1287
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:45,280
so the prosecutor at trial had a

1288
00:43:49,030 --> 00:43:47,760
photocopy of aleister crowley's magic in

1289
00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:49,040
theory and practice

1290
00:43:54,069 --> 00:43:52,160
on his desk i know who he

1291
00:43:57,190 --> 00:43:54,079
is i've read a little bit about him but

1292
00:44:01,510 --> 00:43:57,200
i've never read anything by him

1293
00:44:07,670 --> 00:44:05,670
okay i'll i'll stop it there if i can

1294
00:44:09,510 --> 00:44:07,680
but i want to give people a little bit

1295
00:44:11,190 --> 00:44:09,520
of a taste for

1296
00:44:13,510 --> 00:44:11,200
the excellent movie that you put

1297
00:44:15,349 --> 00:44:13,520
together tell us

1298
00:44:17,750 --> 00:44:15,359
what's happening there with all that

1299
00:44:18,309 --> 00:44:17,760
that you really feel for that kid i have

1300
00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:18,319
to say

1301
00:44:22,710 --> 00:44:20,880
i know they prepped these these

1302
00:44:26,069 --> 00:44:22,720
defendants but he looks

1303
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:26,079
so innocent and harmless but

1304
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:27,599
that's exactly the point i want to put

1305
00:44:33,109 --> 00:44:30,000
on about the deception he's caught with

1306
00:44:34,710 --> 00:44:33,119
in it just an outrageous lie there right

1307
00:44:36,230 --> 00:44:34,720
right yeah i mean they caught him in a

1308
00:44:38,470 --> 00:44:36,240
line that he was writing

1309
00:44:40,309 --> 00:44:38,480
like a secret script i mean the

1310
00:44:41,589 --> 00:44:40,319
allegation is that he was obsessed with

1311
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:41,599
the occult right

1312
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:43,280
but they denied all that but while he

1313
00:44:48,150 --> 00:44:45,359
was in jail what's he doing he's writing

1314
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:48,160
this secret script that has jason

1315
00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:50,400
baldwin's name and aleister crowley and

1316
00:44:54,630 --> 00:44:52,640
then then he gets out what's he do he's

1317
00:44:55,510 --> 00:44:54,640
right back writing books about magic

1318
00:44:57,829 --> 00:44:55,520
with a k

1319
00:44:59,349 --> 00:44:57,839
and making all these very different

1320
00:45:01,349 --> 00:44:59,359
interviews he's quoting

1321
00:45:03,030 --> 00:45:01,359
he's talking about the moonlight he's

1322
00:45:05,349 --> 00:45:03,040
talking about rituals he's

1323
00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:05,359
tweeting he's tweeting about it i mean

1324
00:45:10,630 --> 00:45:07,440
it's just incredible that

1325
00:45:12,309 --> 00:45:10,640
people can actually be be let on to

1326
00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:12,319
think that that's not involved in this

1327
00:45:15,270 --> 00:45:13,200
case

1328
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:15,280
so i want to touch on two things i want

1329
00:45:20,069 --> 00:45:17,520
to hit on the deception thing in a

1330
00:45:23,190 --> 00:45:20,079
minute because i think

1331
00:45:24,470 --> 00:45:23,200
if people aren't aware that that is part

1332
00:45:27,430 --> 00:45:24,480
of the ethos

1333
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:27,440
that is built into this system of

1334
00:45:32,069 --> 00:45:28,160
beliefs

1335
00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:32,079
which is that i can lie to you it's okay

1336
00:45:37,430 --> 00:45:35,520
for me to lie to get my my end

1337
00:45:39,349 --> 00:45:37,440
deception is and it's right in the title

1338
00:45:41,589 --> 00:45:39,359
of your book do you want to speak to

1339
00:45:44,470 --> 00:45:41,599
that have you found that to be

1340
00:45:45,829 --> 00:45:44,480
true absolutely i think that they lie

1341
00:45:47,510 --> 00:45:45,839
about all that stuff they lie about

1342
00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:47,520
their secret society

1343
00:45:51,270 --> 00:45:50,000
uh associations about who their friends

1344
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:51,280
are about their

1345
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:52,800
signals there's a real winking or not

1346
00:45:58,390 --> 00:45:54,640
just like you mentioned within these

1347
00:45:59,990 --> 00:45:58,400
groups so i think that not disclosing

1348
00:46:01,750 --> 00:46:00,000
you know omission would or will say

1349
00:46:04,150 --> 00:46:01,760
admission is the greatest form of lie

1350
00:46:04,950 --> 00:46:04,160
so they admit to tell you all this stuff

1351
00:46:07,270 --> 00:46:04,960
that there's

1352
00:46:08,069 --> 00:46:07,280
all kinds of weird associations i mean

1353
00:46:10,630 --> 00:46:08,079
there's some doc

1354
00:46:12,870 --> 00:46:10,640
i've it's uh i mean there's so much

1355
00:46:15,109 --> 00:46:12,880
deception in this case that

1356
00:46:16,550 --> 00:46:15,119
almost everything that's pro proffered

1357
00:46:19,030 --> 00:46:16,560
by

1358
00:46:20,470 --> 00:46:19,040
uh echoes and some things just nothing

1359
00:46:22,470 --> 00:46:20,480
is really that honest

1360
00:46:24,630 --> 00:46:22,480
he said that he was sick that he was

1361
00:46:26,870 --> 00:46:24,640
beaten in jail all the time

1362
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:26,880
that his teeth were going to fall out

1363
00:46:30,069 --> 00:46:28,480
that they had to take the deal because

1364
00:46:31,910 --> 00:46:30,079
he was gonna die

1365
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:31,920
hey guys i just wanted to jump in for

1366
00:46:36,069 --> 00:46:33,440
one second with a couple

1367
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:36,079
additional points that i wish i would

1368
00:46:38,790 --> 00:46:36,880
have asked

1369
00:46:40,150 --> 00:46:38,800
william but i didn't so i'm gonna try

1370
00:46:43,270 --> 00:46:40,160
and get those in here

1371
00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:43,280
and these come directly out of his book

1372
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:46,160
abomination devil worship and deception

1373
00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:48,560
in the west memphis three murders

1374
00:46:52,710 --> 00:46:51,920
and it's really important for getting to

1375
00:46:55,750 --> 00:46:52,720
the bottom

1376
00:46:56,230 --> 00:46:55,760
of this question of whether damien

1377
00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:56,240
echols

1378
00:46:59,829 --> 00:46:59,040
did these deeds these horrible evil

1379
00:47:01,349 --> 00:46:59,839
deeds

1380
00:47:03,190 --> 00:47:01,359
and i have to make the distinction

1381
00:47:05,430 --> 00:47:03,200
because a lot of people don't get this

1382
00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:05,440
it doesn't speak to whether or not he

1383
00:47:08,950 --> 00:47:07,119
should have been released

1384
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:08,960
you know whether there were some

1385
00:47:13,109 --> 00:47:10,480
technical

1386
00:47:13,990 --> 00:47:13,119
uh requirements in the legal system that

1387
00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:14,000
weren't met

1388
00:47:18,550 --> 00:47:16,000
or whether any of that stuff that's

1389
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:18,560
separate from whether the guy did it

1390
00:47:23,109 --> 00:47:21,520
but the guy did it i mean the interview

1391
00:47:25,589 --> 00:47:23,119
he has in the book

1392
00:47:27,190 --> 00:47:25,599
the inter the police interviews they did

1393
00:47:27,589 --> 00:47:27,200
and these police interviews are tricky

1394
00:47:30,069 --> 00:47:27,599
because

1395
00:47:31,190 --> 00:47:30,079
police in these situations do some

1396
00:47:33,670 --> 00:47:31,200
pretty

1397
00:47:34,309 --> 00:47:33,680
i don't know to me kind of shady kind of

1398
00:47:37,589 --> 00:47:34,319
thing

1399
00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:37,599
is they say

1400
00:47:42,790 --> 00:47:40,720
okay uh who do you imagine

1401
00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:42,800
would have done this crime so they they

1402
00:47:45,430 --> 00:47:44,640
get him down this whole line but listen

1403
00:47:48,069 --> 00:47:45,440
what he says

1404
00:47:48,470 --> 00:47:48,079
first damian confirmed that he liked to

1405
00:47:50,309 --> 00:47:48,480
read

1406
00:47:52,470 --> 00:47:50,319
books and one of his favorite writers

1407
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:52,480
was church of satan founder

1408
00:47:56,069 --> 00:47:55,440
anton levay and the satanic bible now

1409
00:47:58,069 --> 00:47:56,079
that

1410
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:58,079
again you know for the people who are

1411
00:48:01,190 --> 00:48:00,240
apologists for satanism they're like hey

1412
00:48:02,549 --> 00:48:01,200
you know you should be able to read

1413
00:48:05,430 --> 00:48:02,559
whatever you want

1414
00:48:06,630 --> 00:48:05,440
sure you should be able to read whatever

1415
00:48:09,510 --> 00:48:06,640
you want

1416
00:48:11,109 --> 00:48:09,520
but they ask them specific questions

1417
00:48:12,790 --> 00:48:11,119
about the murder

1418
00:48:14,710 --> 00:48:12,800
and they say you know damien again what

1419
00:48:15,349 --> 00:48:14,720
would you how would you imagine it going

1420
00:48:18,309 --> 00:48:15,359
down

1421
00:48:18,870 --> 00:48:18,319
and he said well he figured that the

1422
00:48:21,190 --> 00:48:18,880
killer

1423
00:48:22,950 --> 00:48:21,200
knew the kids in the woods and even

1424
00:48:24,950 --> 00:48:22,960
asked them to come out to the woods

1425
00:48:26,549 --> 00:48:24,960
he said that the boys were not big not

1426
00:48:29,270 --> 00:48:26,559
smart and they could have been

1427
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:29,280
easy to control he also felt that the

1428
00:48:31,750 --> 00:48:30,960
killer would not have worried about

1429
00:48:33,510 --> 00:48:31,760
screaming

1430
00:48:35,589 --> 00:48:33,520
due to being in the woods and close the

1431
00:48:36,309 --> 00:48:35,599
expressway and then he said some

1432
00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:36,319
important

1433
00:48:41,670 --> 00:48:40,079
factual details damien said that the

1434
00:48:44,230 --> 00:48:41,680
bodies of all the boys had been

1435
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:44,240
mutilated and one had been mutilated a

1436
00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:46,160
lot more than the others

1437
00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:48,000
this is a fact that was not known to

1438
00:48:51,750 --> 00:48:50,160
anyone except those at the crime scene

1439
00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:51,760
because the police never released this

1440
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:53,920
information

1441
00:49:01,109 --> 00:48:56,640
he also said that steve jones from the

1442
00:49:04,390 --> 00:49:02,630
had told him about how the boy's

1443
00:49:06,790 --> 00:49:04,400
testicles had been cut off

1444
00:49:07,589 --> 00:49:06,800
and that someone had urinated in their

1445
00:49:09,349 --> 00:49:07,599
mouths

1446
00:49:11,430 --> 00:49:09,359
damien said that that could have been

1447
00:49:12,390 --> 00:49:11,440
the reason why their bodies were placed

1448
00:49:14,470 --> 00:49:12,400
in the water

1449
00:49:15,589 --> 00:49:14,480
so that the urine could have been washed

1450
00:49:17,589 --> 00:49:15,599
out

1451
00:49:19,510 --> 00:49:17,599
this is another critical piece of

1452
00:49:20,710 --> 00:49:19,520
evidence because this information was

1453
00:49:22,549 --> 00:49:20,720
never released

1454
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:22,559
steve jones from the juvenile authority

1455
00:49:26,390 --> 00:49:24,240
had no way of knowing that

1456
00:49:28,309 --> 00:49:26,400
and couldn't have told that to damian

1457
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:28,319
only someone at the crime scene could

1458
00:49:32,069 --> 00:49:29,520
have known that

1459
00:49:33,750 --> 00:49:32,079
so again i'll leave it off there because

1460
00:49:38,069 --> 00:49:33,760
i hate all this

1461
00:49:39,990 --> 00:49:38,079
nasty gory true crime stuff

1462
00:49:42,790 --> 00:49:40,000
but again pack this back into the

1463
00:49:46,710 --> 00:49:42,800
question of whether or not

1464
00:49:49,990 --> 00:49:46,720
this is a case of satanic panic

1465
00:49:54,630 --> 00:49:52,470
you know all kinds of crazy stuff that

1466
00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:54,640
if you look at the totality it's just

1467
00:49:58,549 --> 00:49:57,359
nonsense it's really hard for people to

1468
00:50:01,670 --> 00:49:58,559
believe

1469
00:50:03,829 --> 00:50:01,680
that in real for like

1470
00:50:05,349 --> 00:50:03,839
literal satanism that there's groups and

1471
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:05,359
networked people out there

1472
00:50:09,190 --> 00:50:06,640
and i think that that's really the

1473
00:50:11,670 --> 00:50:09,200
hardest part of

1474
00:50:13,589 --> 00:50:11,680
addressing the west memphis three i

1475
00:50:16,390 --> 00:50:13,599
think you're absolutely right about that

1476
00:50:17,349 --> 00:50:16,400
you know one of the uh chapters i have

1477
00:50:19,829 --> 00:50:17,359
in my book is an

1478
00:50:22,150 --> 00:50:19,839
interview that i did with this woman uh

1479
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:22,160
named annika lucas

1480
00:50:25,990 --> 00:50:24,960
and she's really a lovely person and we

1481
00:50:28,390 --> 00:50:26,000
connected

1482
00:50:30,470 --> 00:50:28,400
we both like yoga and she's a yoga

1483
00:50:33,190 --> 00:50:30,480
teacher for incarcerated women in

1484
00:50:34,790 --> 00:50:33,200
upstate new york and she's got this

1485
00:50:36,069 --> 00:50:34,800
transformation that she's going through

1486
00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:36,079
in her life

1487
00:50:39,349 --> 00:50:37,920
and she would have to because at six

1488
00:50:42,549 --> 00:50:39,359
years old

1489
00:50:43,270 --> 00:50:42,559
she was sold by her mother to a satanic

1490
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:43,280
ritual

1491
00:50:47,270 --> 00:50:46,480
occult abuse network in belgium right

1492
00:50:49,270 --> 00:50:47,280
both of them

1493
00:50:51,109 --> 00:50:49,280
was that was she associated with the

1494
00:50:54,549 --> 00:50:51,119
detroit thing

1495
00:50:55,349 --> 00:50:54,559
well she's careful about uh who she

1496
00:50:58,069 --> 00:50:55,359
names

1497
00:50:58,710 --> 00:50:58,079
but it's very clear that that is the

1498
00:51:01,589 --> 00:50:58,720
group

1499
00:51:01,910 --> 00:51:01,599
that had her because she mentions and

1500
00:51:04,549 --> 00:51:01,920
and

1501
00:51:07,030 --> 00:51:04,559
that's fascinating too right because

1502
00:51:09,589 --> 00:51:07,040
talk about history repeating itself

1503
00:51:10,870 --> 00:51:09,599
you know there was this big you know

1504
00:51:13,510 --> 00:51:10,880
drain the swamp

1505
00:51:15,190 --> 00:51:13,520
and this is this pedo ring and you know

1506
00:51:18,069 --> 00:51:15,200
as i tell people anyone has any doubts

1507
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:18,079
you can still google the photos of kids

1508
00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:21,440
in cages tied up you know just all the

1509
00:51:23,829 --> 00:51:23,280
most horrible of the horrible things you

1510
00:51:26,230 --> 00:51:23,839
can see

1511
00:51:27,030 --> 00:51:26,240
and her account is that she was going to

1512
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:27,040
be killed

1513
00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:30,240
she had been raped like thousands of

1514
00:51:33,430 --> 00:51:30,800
times

1515
00:51:34,710 --> 00:51:33,440
six years old remember six years old by

1516
00:51:38,150 --> 00:51:34,720
her mother

1517
00:51:38,950 --> 00:51:38,160
um and and but the interesting thing i

1518
00:51:42,069 --> 00:51:38,960
always alert

1519
00:51:42,870 --> 00:51:42,079
people to is that if you want to take a

1520
00:51:46,230 --> 00:51:42,880
secular

1521
00:51:48,630 --> 00:51:46,240
perspective on this it doesn't work

1522
00:51:50,630 --> 00:51:48,640
because what these people are doing and

1523
00:51:54,630 --> 00:51:50,640
they will tell you what they're doing

1524
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:54,640
is they are trying to one

1525
00:51:59,589 --> 00:51:57,760
connect with some benevolent force

1526
00:52:01,349 --> 00:51:59,599
in this extended realm and they're

1527
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:01,359
trying to connect with that force

1528
00:52:07,990 --> 00:52:04,640
for a reason to bring in a certain

1529
00:52:10,309 --> 00:52:08,000
energy into this realm and

1530
00:52:12,390 --> 00:52:10,319
that's why they connect with aleister

1531
00:52:13,589 --> 00:52:12,400
crowley and so many it's nothing unique

1532
00:52:16,549 --> 00:52:13,599
about aleister crowley

1533
00:52:16,870 --> 00:52:16,559
it's just many people have chosen that

1534
00:52:21,030 --> 00:52:16,880
at

1535
00:52:23,910 --> 00:52:21,040
world

1536
00:52:24,790 --> 00:52:23,920
that any entity in that extended realm

1537
00:52:27,829 --> 00:52:24,800
that

1538
00:52:31,190 --> 00:52:27,839
do it and

1539
00:52:31,990 --> 00:52:31,200
so please well that's i'm glad you

1540
00:52:34,309 --> 00:52:32,000
brought up that case

1541
00:52:35,430 --> 00:52:34,319
because it was totally networked it was

1542
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:35,440
covered up there was

1543
00:52:39,589 --> 00:52:37,760
all kinds of shenanigans that took place

1544
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:39,599
under the surface like the prosecutor

1545
00:52:42,390 --> 00:52:40,480
got fired

1546
00:52:44,309 --> 00:52:42,400
and there's an incredible german

1547
00:52:45,990 --> 00:52:44,319
documentary that traces

1548
00:52:49,109 --> 00:52:46,000
just the people that were murdered

1549
00:52:51,270 --> 00:52:49,119
around um the dutrow case that knew too

1550
00:52:52,630 --> 00:52:51,280
much it's like 25 people

1551
00:52:54,309 --> 00:52:52,640
like i knew too much i mean they're

1552
00:52:56,309 --> 00:52:54,319
gonna kill me ends up dead

1553
00:52:58,230 --> 00:52:56,319
another person says i've got information

1554
00:53:00,950 --> 00:52:58,240
on this gets run over by a car

1555
00:53:02,309 --> 00:53:00,960
it's incredible it's like jfk you know

1556
00:53:03,670 --> 00:53:02,319
all the people who knew about that who

1557
00:53:06,069 --> 00:53:03,680
ended up dead

1558
00:53:07,670 --> 00:53:06,079
it's incredible the due trow case if you

1559
00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:07,680
don't think that that's networked evil

1560
00:53:11,349 --> 00:53:09,599
i'm sorry you're just wrong because

1561
00:53:13,430 --> 00:53:11,359
it went to the highest levels of that

1562
00:53:15,430 --> 00:53:13,440
elite and dutrow

1563
00:53:16,549 --> 00:53:15,440
was known to leave belgium he was moving

1564
00:53:18,150 --> 00:53:16,559
around europe

1565
00:53:20,309 --> 00:53:18,160
so they don't even know the totality of

1566
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:20,319
what happened in the horror show

1567
00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:22,480
like two of the kids died because he was

1568
00:53:25,030 --> 00:53:24,000
in jail and couldn't feed him in the

1569
00:53:26,710 --> 00:53:25,040
dungeon

1570
00:53:28,470 --> 00:53:26,720
and that's so that's a real problem like

1571
00:53:29,910 --> 00:53:28,480
this they can't people cannot connect to

1572
00:53:30,790 --> 00:53:29,920
spiritual evil and i'm glad you brought

1573
00:53:32,069 --> 00:53:30,800
that up

1574
00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:32,079
because that's what these people are

1575
00:53:35,910 --> 00:53:33,680
doing that's what crowley was doing if

1576
00:53:38,069 --> 00:53:35,920
you read his corpus and all the stuff

1577
00:53:39,750 --> 00:53:38,079
he's talking to entities he's traveling

1578
00:53:42,870 --> 00:53:39,760
through the astral plane

1579
00:53:44,309 --> 00:53:42,880
he's got a boss and the wizard and

1580
00:53:47,109 --> 00:53:44,319
alemantra working

1581
00:53:48,710 --> 00:53:47,119
the jurens is working coron's on you

1582
00:53:49,589 --> 00:53:48,720
know he's supposedly talking to all

1583
00:53:51,510 --> 00:53:49,599
these people

1584
00:53:53,270 --> 00:53:51,520
how literal i mean it's hard to say i'm

1585
00:53:55,430 --> 00:53:53,280
there but that's what a lot of these

1586
00:53:56,870 --> 00:53:55,440
things are doing is summoning demons

1587
00:53:58,790 --> 00:53:56,880
and that's he's giving him information

1588
00:54:01,829 --> 00:53:58,800
that's what he's writing down

1589
00:54:03,829 --> 00:54:01,839
so uh i think that magic that's really

1590
00:54:05,910 --> 00:54:03,839
it and the real argument is is like

1591
00:54:08,829 --> 00:54:05,920
are these figments of your imagination

1592
00:54:11,990 --> 00:54:08,839
or is there something outside

1593
00:54:14,069 --> 00:54:12,000
of your personality that people are

1594
00:54:15,430 --> 00:54:14,079
perceiving right and i mean i think in

1595
00:54:17,109 --> 00:54:15,440
the mat if you want to talk about the

1596
00:54:19,030 --> 00:54:17,119
magical community

1597
00:54:21,190 --> 00:54:19,040
that's an argument however i don't know

1598
00:54:25,589 --> 00:54:21,200
how crowley could have written down

1599
00:54:27,910 --> 00:54:25,599
or uh like a gray alien back in 1918 in

1600
00:54:30,470 --> 00:54:27,920
new york after an all mantra working

1601
00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:30,480
so that is such a stretch for the

1602
00:54:33,510 --> 00:54:31,680
imagination

1603
00:54:34,710 --> 00:54:33,520
and you still see this kind of reference

1604
00:54:36,950 --> 00:54:34,720
alien

1605
00:54:38,470 --> 00:54:36,960
extraterrestrial what if they're extra

1606
00:54:40,710 --> 00:54:38,480
dimensional so

1607
00:54:41,670 --> 00:54:40,720
and they see when people do yage or they

1608
00:54:43,589 --> 00:54:41,680
do

1609
00:54:45,670 --> 00:54:43,599
ayahuasca there's always this green man

1610
00:54:48,950 --> 00:54:45,680
they're talking to people that

1611
00:54:50,870 --> 00:54:48,960
have these weird entity experiences

1612
00:54:51,990 --> 00:54:50,880
and that may be all the ufo phenomenon

1613
00:54:55,270 --> 00:54:52,000
really is is

1614
00:54:59,030 --> 00:54:55,280
really people who are um

1615
00:55:01,190 --> 00:54:59,040
having extras you know extra dimensional

1616
00:55:02,630 --> 00:55:01,200
events not extraterrestrials so and we

1617
00:55:03,510 --> 00:55:02,640
go i could talk about that in children

1618
00:55:05,589 --> 00:55:03,520
the beast

1619
00:55:06,789 --> 00:55:05,599
ballet talking to mcmurtry and all these

1620
00:55:09,829 --> 00:55:06,799
other cats but

1621
00:55:11,270 --> 00:55:09,839
uh well i think yeah here's where i want

1622
00:55:12,950 --> 00:55:11,280
to go with that and i don't know if

1623
00:55:18,549 --> 00:55:12,960
we've maybe we've hammered on this

1624
00:55:24,789 --> 00:55:21,990
there's this there's this double speak

1625
00:55:26,230 --> 00:55:24,799
going on you know the cultural part of

1626
00:55:28,390 --> 00:55:26,240
it

1627
00:55:29,910 --> 00:55:28,400
and i'm struggling i'd like you to talk

1628
00:55:33,670 --> 00:55:29,920
more about

1629
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:33,680
the culture around satanism

1630
00:55:37,270 --> 00:55:35,920
and occultism and i don't want to use

1631
00:55:37,910 --> 00:55:37,280
those words in the way that they're

1632
00:55:41,030 --> 00:55:37,920
usually

1633
00:55:41,670 --> 00:55:41,040
used you know i mean i had oxford

1634
00:55:45,109 --> 00:55:41,680
christian

1635
00:55:46,150 --> 00:55:45,119
scholar richard smoley how god became

1636
00:55:48,230 --> 00:55:46,160
god

1637
00:55:49,990 --> 00:55:48,240
super great guy scholar religious

1638
00:55:51,750 --> 00:55:50,000
scholar and remains a christian

1639
00:55:53,349 --> 00:55:51,760
but he'll point out to you that

1640
00:55:57,430 --> 00:55:53,359
historically

1641
00:55:59,829 --> 00:55:57,440
satan you know isn't in the pre-torah

1642
00:56:01,109 --> 00:55:59,839
writings and he kind of pops in after

1643
00:56:03,910 --> 00:56:01,119
zoryaster and

1644
00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:03,920
we have all these things of the reality

1645
00:56:07,829 --> 00:56:06,400
we're co-creating reality i talked to

1646
00:56:09,190 --> 00:56:07,839
william i can't tell you how many near

1647
00:56:10,950 --> 00:56:09,200
that experienced people i've talked to

1648
00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:10,960
but i talked to a guy just the other day

1649
00:56:15,349 --> 00:56:13,440
fantastic guy i have no doubt about his

1650
00:56:17,030 --> 00:56:15,359
christ consciousness experience

1651
00:56:19,030 --> 00:56:17,040
because that's what happened to him he

1652
00:56:20,549 --> 00:56:19,040
died he was actually

1653
00:56:22,630 --> 00:56:20,559
he went to kiss his girlfriend at the

1654
00:56:23,270 --> 00:56:22,640
commuter train and the door closed on

1655
00:56:25,190 --> 00:56:23,280
his coat

1656
00:56:26,630 --> 00:56:25,200
oh wow dragged him under the train and

1657
00:56:28,829 --> 00:56:26,640
he died and he

1658
00:56:29,990 --> 00:56:28,839
saw jesus and he had this incredible

1659
00:56:31,990 --> 00:56:30,000
experience

1660
00:56:33,589 --> 00:56:32,000
i don't doubt that he had this

1661
00:56:35,829 --> 00:56:33,599
incredible experience

1662
00:56:37,910 --> 00:56:35,839
in this consciousness realm with jesus

1663
00:56:39,190 --> 00:56:37,920
but then i asked him i said

1664
00:56:40,950 --> 00:56:39,200
you know david a lot of people i've

1665
00:56:41,990 --> 00:56:40,960
talked to that have multiple near-death

1666
00:56:45,430 --> 00:56:42,000
experiences

1667
00:56:45,990 --> 00:56:45,440
they sometimes say that the the christ

1668
00:56:48,390 --> 00:56:46,000
figure

1669
00:56:49,109 --> 00:56:48,400
kind of gives way to an even greater and

1670
00:56:51,270 --> 00:56:49,119
a higher

1671
00:56:52,870 --> 00:56:51,280
god you know there's hierarchy he goes i

1672
00:56:54,470 --> 00:56:52,880
can't deny that that isn't true because

1673
00:56:55,430 --> 00:56:54,480
i got a sense that there's more for me

1674
00:56:59,430 --> 00:56:55,440
and stuff like that

1675
00:57:02,069 --> 00:56:59,440
i'm not trying to like i'm not trying to

1676
00:57:02,549 --> 00:57:02,079
kind of preach to you on any of that

1677
00:57:04,710 --> 00:57:02,559
stuff

1678
00:57:06,230 --> 00:57:04,720
i'm just trying what that opens up to me

1679
00:57:10,069 --> 00:57:06,240
is the possibility

1680
00:57:12,309 --> 00:57:10,079
that we need to consider an unbelievably

1681
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:12,319
varied realm in this extended realm

1682
00:57:17,589 --> 00:57:13,839
which is even more

1683
00:57:19,990 --> 00:57:17,599
complicated than our realm and that

1684
00:57:21,030 --> 00:57:20,000
to be because we don't know what these

1685
00:57:23,750 --> 00:57:21,040
guys are doing

1686
00:57:24,390 --> 00:57:23,760
exactly and and i'm uncomfortable with

1687
00:57:27,270 --> 00:57:24,400
just saying

1688
00:57:29,190 --> 00:57:27,280
a demon they wanted a demon i just don't

1689
00:57:31,750 --> 00:57:29,200
think we know enough

1690
00:57:33,990 --> 00:57:31,760
we know it's evil we know it's dark and

1691
00:57:35,589 --> 00:57:34,000
i'm just kind of rambling here so say

1692
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:35,599
well no but i think it's interesting

1693
00:57:39,270 --> 00:57:36,960
because you can even look out of the

1694
00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:39,280
biblical context of the

1695
00:57:42,789 --> 00:57:42,240
these like uh demonic entities are all

1696
00:57:47,829 --> 00:57:42,799
through

1697
00:57:49,349 --> 00:57:47,839
all of these legends and stuff like that

1698
00:57:52,549 --> 00:57:49,359
that there's bad spirits

1699
00:57:55,030 --> 00:57:52,559
almost every culture has some kind of

1700
00:57:56,710 --> 00:57:55,040
reference to these kind of things that

1701
00:57:58,950 --> 00:57:56,720
are outside of themselves

1702
00:58:00,470 --> 00:57:58,960
um not ghosts or something but some kind

1703
00:58:02,549 --> 00:58:00,480
of evil presence

1704
00:58:04,150 --> 00:58:02,559
so it's a commonality not just kind of

1705
00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:04,160
in the bible where

1706
00:58:07,510 --> 00:58:05,920
the new testament talks about christ

1707
00:58:10,549 --> 00:58:07,520
being tempted by satan

1708
00:58:12,789 --> 00:58:10,559
there's actually references to uh

1709
00:58:14,549 --> 00:58:12,799
you know satan right there at the end

1710
00:58:17,109 --> 00:58:14,559
before in jerusalem

1711
00:58:18,870 --> 00:58:17,119
at the last supper with judas right

1712
00:58:20,630 --> 00:58:18,880
satan enters into judas and he goes and

1713
00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:20,640
betrays christ

1714
00:58:23,829 --> 00:58:23,280
so but even there's even a reference to

1715
00:58:25,670 --> 00:58:23,839
satan

1716
00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:25,680
in isaiah for example which is the old

1717
00:58:28,789 --> 00:58:27,760
testament but yeah before that maybe not

1718
00:58:31,270 --> 00:58:28,799
so much but

1719
00:58:32,230 --> 00:58:31,280
there's definitely even the mosaic is is

1720
00:58:34,390 --> 00:58:32,240
fighting against

1721
00:58:36,390 --> 00:58:34,400
it's interesting because in the bible

1722
00:58:39,430 --> 00:58:36,400
paul mentions moses

1723
00:58:40,150 --> 00:58:39,440
contesting against the two magicians of

1724
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:40,160
the time

1725
00:58:44,710 --> 00:58:43,040
uh in pharaoh's court janus and jamburus

1726
00:58:48,309 --> 00:58:44,720
but they're not mentioned

1727
00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:48,319
in the exodus or mosaic narrative

1728
00:58:51,990 --> 00:58:50,640
so paul seemed to have some reference to

1729
00:58:53,430 --> 00:58:52,000
these two magicians

1730
00:58:56,710 --> 00:58:53,440
and there are magicians in the bible

1731
00:58:59,589 --> 00:58:56,720
like simon magus and the witch at endor

1732
00:59:00,069 --> 00:58:59,599
so this kind of magical tradition is a

1733
00:59:02,309 --> 00:59:00,079
part of

1734
00:59:04,150 --> 00:59:02,319
human civilization a dark magic maybe if

1735
00:59:06,950 --> 00:59:04,160
you want to call it that but

1736
00:59:08,470 --> 00:59:06,960
uh you know so so something outside of

1737
00:59:11,030 --> 00:59:08,480
yourself like some demon

1738
00:59:12,230 --> 00:59:11,040
i think extra entity or something like

1739
00:59:15,910 --> 00:59:12,240
that

1740
00:59:18,069 --> 00:59:15,920
you want to say like on

1741
00:59:20,230 --> 00:59:18,079
people who've had experience miracles

1742
00:59:23,270 --> 00:59:20,240
near-death experiences

1743
00:59:25,109 --> 00:59:23,280
um you know there's varieties of

1744
00:59:25,430 --> 00:59:25,119
religious experience just like that book

1745
00:59:27,750 --> 00:59:25,440
said

1746
00:59:30,150 --> 00:59:27,760
so i don't think it's outside of that i

1747
00:59:33,670 --> 00:59:32,150
it happens whether it's within the

1748
00:59:35,589 --> 00:59:33,680
christian tradition or not

1749
00:59:37,670 --> 00:59:35,599
right so we're kind of pushed in this

1750
00:59:40,470 --> 00:59:37,680
box so we're kind of an agreement

1751
00:59:41,670 --> 00:59:40,480
that that we're being kind of pushed in

1752
00:59:44,710 --> 00:59:41,680
this box

1753
00:59:46,549 --> 00:59:44,720
to either deny evil

1754
00:59:48,870 --> 00:59:46,559
and when i say evil you know let's try

1755
00:59:52,030 --> 00:59:48,880
and work towards a definition

1756
00:59:53,750 --> 00:59:52,040
this kind of soul-crushing

1757
00:59:57,190 --> 00:59:53,760
extra-dimensional help

1758
00:59:59,349 --> 00:59:57,200
in order to destroy someone's soul

1759
01:00:00,710 --> 00:59:59,359
that's evil we can kind of drive that

1760
01:00:01,270 --> 01:00:00,720
one on the ground say okay i don't know

1761
01:00:03,990 --> 01:00:01,280
about

1762
01:00:06,710 --> 01:00:04,000
drone striking you know a wedding party

1763
01:00:09,349 --> 01:00:06,720
in yemen which i think is pretty bad but

1764
01:00:10,470 --> 01:00:09,359
who knows it has some geopolitical aim

1765
01:00:13,670 --> 01:00:10,480
or something

1766
01:00:16,549 --> 01:00:13,680
this we we can more clearly say

1767
01:00:18,549 --> 01:00:16,559
yeah that's can't see any other way that

1768
01:00:21,990 --> 01:00:18,559
that isn't evil so

1769
01:00:22,710 --> 01:00:22,000
then what is the play in culture why do

1770
01:00:24,309 --> 01:00:22,720
we have this

1771
01:00:25,510 --> 01:00:24,319
this divide why do we have like we

1772
01:00:27,109 --> 01:00:25,520
talked about the very beginning you know

1773
01:00:28,390 --> 01:00:27,119
that neil degrasse does tyson who

1774
01:00:30,390 --> 01:00:28,400
we really think is probably just

1775
01:00:32,789 --> 01:00:30,400
completely oblivious

1776
01:00:34,390 --> 01:00:32,799
you know is just happy living in his

1777
01:00:37,270 --> 01:00:34,400
materialistic world

1778
01:00:38,150 --> 01:00:37,280
and then you got the kind of hollywood

1779
01:00:40,549 --> 01:00:38,160
you know which you've just

1780
01:00:42,950 --> 01:00:40,559
explored extensively is going like man

1781
01:00:46,390 --> 01:00:42,960
we're way past you guys we're

1782
01:00:48,309 --> 01:00:46,400
we're using this we're using the force

1783
01:00:50,470 --> 01:00:48,319
right oh yeah that's a good point i mean

1784
01:00:51,990 --> 01:00:50,480
look at johnny depp he supposedly uses

1785
01:00:54,710 --> 01:00:52,000
these entities

1786
01:00:57,030 --> 01:00:54,720
to inform himself on all of his roles

1787
01:00:58,230 --> 01:00:57,040
like he's fully involved in these things

1788
01:00:59,510 --> 01:00:58,240
like

1789
01:01:02,069 --> 01:00:59,520
what would be called evil if you want to

1790
01:01:04,950 --> 01:01:02,079
define like people ask me why do you

1791
01:01:06,870 --> 01:01:04,960
like you're an admirer of crowley or you

1792
01:01:09,670 --> 01:01:06,880
seem to talk about him

1793
01:01:11,430 --> 01:01:09,680
in laudatory terms i don't i called him

1794
01:01:12,870 --> 01:01:11,440
the prophet of evil he thought he was a

1795
01:01:15,190 --> 01:01:12,880
prophet of the new aeon

1796
01:01:16,390 --> 01:01:15,200
i believe his evil because all of his

1797
01:01:18,870 --> 01:01:16,400
ideas

1798
01:01:20,309 --> 01:01:18,880
are antithetical towards the treatment

1799
01:01:23,190 --> 01:01:20,319
of

1800
01:01:24,549 --> 01:01:23,200
uh society really in general it's super

1801
01:01:26,230 --> 01:01:24,559
selfish you lie

1802
01:01:28,069 --> 01:01:26,240
like you said we can go over this theme

1803
01:01:31,750 --> 01:01:28,079
of our conversation you lie

1804
01:01:33,270 --> 01:01:31,760
you manipulate the slave shall serve uh

1805
01:01:35,430 --> 01:01:33,280
you know cruelly was kind of like a

1806
01:01:38,549 --> 01:01:35,440
classist of the worst sort

1807
01:01:38,789 --> 01:01:38,559
but uh i think the definitive definition

1808
01:01:41,190 --> 01:01:38,799
of

1809
01:01:43,510 --> 01:01:41,200
evil is like what people are willing to

1810
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:43,520
do to their fellow man to get

1811
01:01:50,470 --> 01:01:47,280
worldly benefits whether it's money sex

1812
01:01:52,630 --> 01:01:50,480
fame uh kind of the standards the

1813
01:01:54,150 --> 01:01:52,640
standard sins and then you can kind of

1814
01:01:57,109 --> 01:01:54,160
counterpoise

1815
01:01:58,150 --> 01:01:57,119
pose that at least teaching of

1816
01:02:00,630 --> 01:01:58,160
christianity

1817
01:02:01,990 --> 01:02:00,640
to something universal is like christ is

1818
01:02:04,710 --> 01:02:02,000
a servant right so he's

1819
01:02:06,150 --> 01:02:04,720
and you turn the other cheek and you

1820
01:02:07,430 --> 01:02:06,160
know there's these teachings here where

1821
01:02:10,549 --> 01:02:07,440
you're not supposed to

1822
01:02:11,670 --> 01:02:10,559
propagate trauma or hurt on somebody

1823
01:02:13,750 --> 01:02:11,680
else that's kind of like what turning

1824
01:02:18,069 --> 01:02:13,760
the other cheek is you don't strike back

1825
01:02:20,230 --> 01:02:18,079
and so it does it kind of lessens uh

1826
01:02:21,589 --> 01:02:20,240
you know whatever whatever harms are

1827
01:02:24,470 --> 01:02:21,599
going out there it doesn't

1828
01:02:25,430 --> 01:02:24,480
it doesn't it doesn't engender that kind

1829
01:02:29,349 --> 01:02:25,440
of

1830
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:29,359
know people hurting each other so

1831
01:02:33,349 --> 01:02:31,200
you know i can i can definitely see cro

1832
01:02:35,109 --> 01:02:33,359
and crowley himself is in

1833
01:02:36,549 --> 01:02:35,119
really i mean it's interesting too about

1834
01:02:38,950 --> 01:02:36,559
how many of these

1835
01:02:40,230 --> 01:02:38,960
occultists really are christ and

1836
01:02:43,270 --> 01:02:40,240
christian haters

1837
01:02:46,870 --> 01:02:43,280
whether it's hubbard or crowley

1838
01:02:48,230 --> 01:02:46,880
or hitler or some of these other people

1839
01:02:50,390 --> 01:02:48,240
how they really deliberately

1840
01:02:53,589 --> 01:02:50,400
counter-poise themselves against

1841
01:02:55,029 --> 01:02:53,599
the teachings of christ and i think

1842
01:02:56,069 --> 01:02:55,039
there's a couple interesting things and

1843
01:02:57,910 --> 01:02:56,079
i don't know if we can

1844
01:03:00,710 --> 01:02:57,920
kind of smooth this out and hit all the

1845
01:03:05,029 --> 01:03:00,720
points but there's there's one

1846
01:03:08,309 --> 01:03:06,309
you know and this is in the crowley

1847
01:03:10,069 --> 01:03:08,319
thing and maybe you can pick up on it

1848
01:03:13,750 --> 01:03:10,079
and elaborate on it

1849
01:03:15,430 --> 01:03:13,760
but the the do without wilt ethos

1850
01:03:17,190 --> 01:03:15,440
which whenever you talk to a crowley

1851
01:03:18,230 --> 01:03:17,200
apologist they jump on that they go you

1852
01:03:19,670 --> 01:03:18,240
don't know what that means

1853
01:03:21,510 --> 01:03:19,680
you don't know what that really means i

1854
01:03:25,029 --> 01:03:21,520
go his whole life

1855
01:03:27,990 --> 01:03:25,039
is about that i mean look at his life

1856
01:03:28,630 --> 01:03:28,000
look at the deeds you know the fruit but

1857
01:03:33,510 --> 01:03:28,640
i guess

1858
01:03:39,270 --> 01:03:36,549
sabbataean frankish kind of

1859
01:03:40,069 --> 01:03:39,280
we can't all be saints so let's all be

1860
01:03:43,510 --> 01:03:40,079
sinners

1861
01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:43,520
and this kind of crowley i want to do

1862
01:03:47,349 --> 01:03:44,640
the most

1863
01:03:49,750 --> 01:03:47,359
horrible but then they twisted into

1864
01:03:53,270 --> 01:03:49,760
again this christian thing of

1865
01:03:56,390 --> 01:03:53,280
because that will in this twisted way

1866
01:03:59,190 --> 01:03:56,400
bring about the next

1867
01:04:00,870 --> 01:03:59,200
coming of christ you want to speak to

1868
01:04:02,390 --> 01:04:00,880
that at all

1869
01:04:04,230 --> 01:04:02,400
well i mean i think that you know

1870
01:04:05,829 --> 01:04:04,240
crowley said he got got power from

1871
01:04:09,029 --> 01:04:05,839
transgression and i think that's

1872
01:04:10,630 --> 01:04:09,039
a very common theme within occultists

1873
01:04:12,630 --> 01:04:10,640
or satanists or whatever however you

1874
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:12,640
want to call them so

1875
01:04:16,870 --> 01:04:15,680
uh and i think that the worst crimes i

1876
01:04:20,150 --> 01:04:16,880
think are

1877
01:04:22,069 --> 01:04:20,160
you know it's an inversion so um

1878
01:04:23,190 --> 01:04:22,079
definitely it's there and crowley and it

1879
01:04:25,029 --> 01:04:23,200
was funny like

1880
01:04:26,390 --> 01:04:25,039
somebody asked crowley what if you have

1881
01:04:28,870 --> 01:04:26,400
two people

1882
01:04:31,270 --> 01:04:28,880
whose wills doing what they will what if

1883
01:04:33,190 --> 01:04:31,280
they conflict what if they're

1884
01:04:34,470 --> 01:04:33,200
headbutt over it and he didn't have an

1885
01:04:36,789 --> 01:04:34,480
answer for that

1886
01:04:39,029 --> 01:04:36,799
so you can just see is the wreckage of

1887
01:04:41,349 --> 01:04:39,039
crowley's life the ruined lives the

1888
01:04:44,630 --> 01:04:41,359
wrecked lives the suicides

1889
01:04:46,309 --> 01:04:44,640
you know he would just uh it was like an

1890
01:04:47,589 --> 01:04:46,319
energy drain on almost all of his

1891
01:04:49,829 --> 01:04:47,599
scarlet women

1892
01:04:51,349 --> 01:04:49,839
branding him on the chest and then when

1893
01:04:52,950 --> 01:04:51,359
he was done they were done they were not

1894
01:04:56,150 --> 01:04:52,960
giving him

1895
01:04:59,670 --> 01:04:56,160
this spiritual energy that he wanted

1896
01:05:01,589 --> 01:04:59,680
and they just moved on so uh

1897
01:05:03,430 --> 01:05:01,599
i don't think that his life i mean if

1898
01:05:04,789 --> 01:05:03,440
the apologists think that he lived an

1899
01:05:06,390 --> 01:05:04,799
exemplary life

1900
01:05:08,150 --> 01:05:06,400
i think that they're deluding themselves

1901
01:05:09,670 --> 01:05:08,160
there's a lot of delusion

1902
01:05:11,670 --> 01:05:09,680
in the crowley followers and there's a

1903
01:05:13,589 --> 01:05:11,680
lot of uh

1904
01:05:15,349 --> 01:05:13,599
simplification that a lot of these

1905
01:05:17,510 --> 01:05:15,359
people don't really the people who

1906
01:05:19,510 --> 01:05:17,520
admire crowley only saw him

1907
01:05:21,430 --> 01:05:19,520
one side which is his religion but not

1908
01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:21,440
his real personality

1909
01:05:25,109 --> 01:05:23,760
and the way he behaved toward others you

1910
01:05:28,150 --> 01:05:25,119
know so

1911
01:05:29,430 --> 01:05:28,160
i don't think that the truth i think i

1912
01:05:30,710 --> 01:05:29,440
think if they look at the truth of

1913
01:05:31,910 --> 01:05:30,720
really what he did

1914
01:05:33,990 --> 01:05:31,920
and that was really one of the things

1915
01:05:37,270 --> 01:05:34,000
that why i was inspired to write a book

1916
01:05:39,910 --> 01:05:37,280
about crowley is because of all of the

1917
01:05:41,589 --> 01:05:39,920
you know kind of uh expert gated or

1918
01:05:42,470 --> 01:05:41,599
elements of his life that people just

1919
01:05:43,829 --> 01:05:42,480
left out

1920
01:05:45,829 --> 01:05:43,839
they just call him a great man a

1921
01:05:47,589 --> 01:05:45,839
liberator of humanity and

1922
01:05:48,950 --> 01:05:47,599
all this other stuff but he was down i

1923
01:05:49,430 --> 01:05:48,960
mean he was outright satan as he

1924
01:05:52,789 --> 01:05:49,440
admitted

1925
01:05:54,309 --> 01:05:52,799
as much that awos was lucifer and

1926
01:05:56,150 --> 01:05:54,319
you know the devil of the starry

1927
01:05:59,349 --> 01:05:56,160
universe so he just

1928
01:06:01,670 --> 01:05:59,359
he just concealed it and uh camouflaged

1929
01:06:06,069 --> 01:06:01,680
it much better than maybe

1930
01:06:08,630 --> 01:06:06,079
uh kind of a you know person like levay

1931
01:06:10,390 --> 01:06:08,640
so william before we run out of time

1932
01:06:11,910 --> 01:06:10,400
because i've kind of babbled on about a

1933
01:06:13,510 --> 01:06:11,920
lot of my stuff one of the important

1934
01:06:15,510 --> 01:06:13,520
things about your work

1935
01:06:17,430 --> 01:06:15,520
especially with crowley is you give the

1936
01:06:20,230 --> 01:06:17,440
direct connections to

1937
01:06:21,510 --> 01:06:20,240
present day culture like timothy leary

1938
01:06:23,349 --> 01:06:21,520
might be one that

1939
01:06:24,789 --> 01:06:23,359
some people have known that for a while

1940
01:06:26,470 --> 01:06:24,799
but some people don't

1941
01:06:28,470 --> 01:06:26,480
obviously the music industry the

1942
01:06:30,390 --> 01:06:28,480
hollywood industry and this

1943
01:06:32,309 --> 01:06:30,400
you know just admiration and this kind

1944
01:06:33,430 --> 01:06:32,319
of blind devotion and you can only

1945
01:06:34,150 --> 01:06:33,440
imagine the feedback we're going to get

1946
01:06:36,069 --> 01:06:34,160
from this show

1947
01:06:37,349 --> 01:06:36,079
because there's some real crowley

1948
01:06:39,430 --> 01:06:37,359
defenders and they're just

1949
01:06:40,630 --> 01:06:39,440
out to stomp out you know anyone who

1950
01:06:43,829 --> 01:06:40,640
says that

1951
01:06:44,870 --> 01:06:43,839
connections to important cultural

1952
01:06:48,470 --> 01:06:44,880
figures in time

1953
01:06:51,670 --> 01:06:50,069
well i mean you can just go back through

1954
01:06:52,549 --> 01:06:51,680
so many influential people whether it's

1955
01:06:55,270 --> 01:06:52,559
hubbard

1956
01:06:57,029 --> 01:06:55,280
whether it's leary whether it's jimmy

1957
01:06:58,950 --> 01:06:57,039
page kenneth anger

1958
01:07:00,069 --> 01:06:58,960
who's associated with the manson family

1959
01:07:02,710 --> 01:07:00,079
i mean he

1960
01:07:05,190 --> 01:07:02,720
literally lived with bobby bouzille and

1961
01:07:06,870 --> 01:07:05,200
bobby busley was in losing verizon

1962
01:07:08,390 --> 01:07:06,880
and it's something one element of the

1963
01:07:10,230 --> 01:07:08,400
whole uh

1964
01:07:11,589 --> 01:07:10,240
corpus of works about manson that you

1965
01:07:14,630 --> 01:07:11,599
almost never hear about

1966
01:07:16,150 --> 01:07:14,640
is that boozley who murdered him and was

1967
01:07:17,990 --> 01:07:16,160
living with anger and was in a movie

1968
01:07:18,950 --> 01:07:18,000
with him he was also considered himself

1969
01:07:20,710 --> 01:07:18,960
a warlock

1970
01:07:22,230 --> 01:07:20,720
and was also associated with so many

1971
01:07:24,309 --> 01:07:22,240
other cultural events and still

1972
01:07:26,150 --> 01:07:24,319
alive still alive today believe it or

1973
01:07:28,470 --> 01:07:26,160
not anchor has been

1974
01:07:29,270 --> 01:07:28,480
friends with jack parsons and and

1975
01:07:32,309 --> 01:07:29,280
marjorie

1976
01:07:33,829 --> 01:07:32,319
cameron all the way to today and also

1977
01:07:36,470 --> 01:07:33,839
it's also an element of the elite

1978
01:07:38,710 --> 01:07:36,480
because one of his great sponsors was

1979
01:07:40,069 --> 01:07:38,720
j paul getty jr one of the richest men

1980
01:07:42,069 --> 01:07:40,079
in the world who paid

1981
01:07:43,910 --> 01:07:42,079
whenever anger wanted to take flights he

1982
01:07:44,870 --> 01:07:43,920
just got a carp launch payment from the

1983
01:07:46,630 --> 01:07:44,880
getty family

1984
01:07:48,069 --> 01:07:46,640
which tells you a lot about the elite

1985
01:07:50,230 --> 01:07:48,079
and getty used to get in

1986
01:07:51,910 --> 01:07:50,240
do all kinds of weird rituals and tunes

1987
01:07:54,390 --> 01:07:51,920
and stuff kind of like

1988
01:07:55,750 --> 01:07:54,400
it's just you really if you really look

1989
01:07:57,589 --> 01:07:55,760
past the

1990
01:07:59,190 --> 01:07:57,599
curtain of these people they're much

1991
01:08:02,549 --> 01:07:59,200
darker than you could imagine

1992
01:08:04,150 --> 01:08:02,559
so um i think that that culture is very

1993
01:08:07,270 --> 01:08:04,160
important and it's usually left out

1994
01:08:07,750 --> 01:08:07,280
in these histories of these people they

1995
01:08:09,349 --> 01:08:07,760
probably

1996
01:08:10,950 --> 01:08:09,359
like i said it's an explorated her

1997
01:08:12,710 --> 01:08:10,960
that's a selective history so if you we

1998
01:08:15,910 --> 01:08:12,720
can go back to the very beginning of our

1999
01:08:19,669 --> 01:08:15,920
talk where if you have a materialist

2000
01:08:21,510 --> 01:08:19,679
darwinist uh you know person without a

2001
01:08:21,990 --> 01:08:21,520
kind of a spiritual view they just won't

2002
01:08:24,229 --> 01:08:22,000
even

2003
01:08:25,030 --> 01:08:24,239
look at these things as important

2004
01:08:27,030 --> 01:08:25,040
markers

2005
01:08:28,550 --> 01:08:27,040
upon character and how that character

2006
01:08:30,149 --> 01:08:28,560
plays itself out

2007
01:08:31,910 --> 01:08:30,159
in the real world they just won't even

2008
01:08:33,749 --> 01:08:31,920
accept it then if you have the

2009
01:08:37,030 --> 01:08:33,759
occultists they're deliberately

2010
01:08:39,269 --> 01:08:37,040
keeping that out so you have

2011
01:08:40,149 --> 01:08:39,279
there's a real histo histographical

2012
01:08:42,950 --> 01:08:40,159
problem

2013
01:08:43,669 --> 01:08:42,960
because a lot of these people move into

2014
01:08:45,110 --> 01:08:43,679
these night

2015
01:08:46,470 --> 01:08:45,120
into these characters and their

2016
01:08:47,269 --> 01:08:46,480
understanding of what they're really

2017
01:08:51,349 --> 01:08:47,279
doing

2018
01:08:53,510 --> 01:08:51,359
because there's parties deliberately

2019
01:08:54,789 --> 01:08:53,520
whether because of their own inherent

2020
01:08:56,309 --> 01:08:54,799
biases or

2021
01:08:57,990 --> 01:08:56,319
intentionally because they're a cultist

2022
01:09:00,390 --> 01:08:58,000
which is to hide something

2023
01:09:02,470 --> 01:09:00,400
keeping that out so and that's really

2024
01:09:04,309 --> 01:09:02,480
when you see these characters how

2025
01:09:06,070 --> 01:09:04,319
if you don't get all the facets of their

2026
01:09:07,669 --> 01:09:06,080
character and like hubbard

2027
01:09:10,070 --> 01:09:07,679
who was the source i mean all the same

2028
01:09:13,110 --> 01:09:10,080
kind of fake prophecy type stuff

2029
01:09:14,950 --> 01:09:13,120
uh how how toxic and dangerous hubbard

2030
01:09:16,229 --> 01:09:14,960
really was in scientology

2031
01:09:18,870 --> 01:09:16,239
if you don't see that part of his

2032
01:09:20,229 --> 01:09:18,880
connection to crowley you could probably

2033
01:09:22,789 --> 01:09:20,239
you could literally

2034
01:09:25,669 --> 01:09:22,799
have your soul raped by him and that

2035
01:09:27,590 --> 01:09:25,679
whole organization

2036
01:09:28,789 --> 01:09:27,600
you know kind of related to that it took

2037
01:09:30,229 --> 01:09:28,799
me a long time to come to this

2038
01:09:32,390 --> 01:09:30,239
realization about the

2039
01:09:33,510 --> 01:09:32,400
the atheist materialist you know there's

2040
01:09:36,070 --> 01:09:33,520
no meaning

2041
01:09:38,550 --> 01:09:36,080
you're a biological robot the whole top

2042
01:09:41,910 --> 01:09:38,560
of your brain is just a big deceiver

2043
01:09:43,910 --> 01:09:41,920
of reality to uh

2044
01:09:46,309 --> 01:09:43,920
perpetrate perpetrate your genes that's

2045
01:09:50,149 --> 01:09:46,319
all it is it's impossible for me to

2046
01:09:52,470 --> 01:09:50,159
accept that that isn't conspiracy

2047
01:09:53,749 --> 01:09:52,480
also that that is a point that's

2048
01:09:57,030 --> 01:09:53,759
orchestrated

2049
01:09:58,229 --> 01:09:57,040
because what it just totally fits into

2050
01:10:00,229 --> 01:09:58,239
the playbook you know

2051
01:10:02,070 --> 01:10:00,239
and people don't realize that to do that

2052
01:10:04,630 --> 01:10:02,080
it doesn't require a completely

2053
01:10:06,310 --> 01:10:04,640
orchestrated kind of thing you just put

2054
01:10:06,709 --> 01:10:06,320
the cheese in the maze where you want

2055
01:10:09,110 --> 01:10:06,719
these

2056
01:10:10,630 --> 01:10:09,120
little rats to run and they don't even

2057
01:10:12,470 --> 01:10:10,640
know what they're doing but they're

2058
01:10:13,110 --> 01:10:12,480
they're doing the bidding of someone who

2059
01:10:15,590 --> 01:10:13,120
says

2060
01:10:16,950 --> 01:10:15,600
hell yes i want people to think that

2061
01:10:18,790 --> 01:10:16,960
life is meaningless

2062
01:10:21,350 --> 01:10:18,800
and to just be materialists and

2063
01:10:23,189 --> 01:10:21,360
consumers that fits in perfectly

2064
01:10:24,550 --> 01:10:23,199
well let me yeah let me just follow add

2065
01:10:25,990 --> 01:10:24,560
to that because

2066
01:10:27,510 --> 01:10:26,000
it's like if you're an elitist that's

2067
01:10:28,950 --> 01:10:27,520
what you want you're the people who are

2068
01:10:30,550 --> 01:10:28,960
your slaves serving to believe

2069
01:10:32,470 --> 01:10:30,560
there's no meaning don't make any

2070
01:10:34,790 --> 01:10:32,480
changes there's no

2071
01:10:36,870 --> 01:10:34,800
action on your behalf i mean if you look

2072
01:10:39,510 --> 01:10:36,880
at darwin and really unpack

2073
01:10:40,709 --> 01:10:39,520
the origin of species it really is a big

2074
01:10:43,189 --> 01:10:40,719
racetrack

2075
01:10:44,070 --> 01:10:43,199
and it has its own ideology outside of

2076
01:10:45,750 --> 01:10:44,080
science

2077
01:10:47,350 --> 01:10:45,760
it's about the most favored favorite

2078
01:10:48,790 --> 01:10:47,360
races to

2079
01:10:50,550 --> 01:10:48,800
and the struggle for survival right

2080
01:10:51,270 --> 01:10:50,560
that's the subtext of it if you ever see

2081
01:10:53,030 --> 01:10:51,280
darwin

2082
01:10:54,870 --> 01:10:53,040
he's making the occult sign of silence

2083
01:10:57,350 --> 01:10:54,880
so this kind of occultism

2084
01:10:58,390 --> 01:10:57,360
has been around forever pre-crowley he

2085
01:11:02,070 --> 01:10:58,400
just adapted and

2086
01:11:04,790 --> 01:11:02,080
adopted it stole it or lifted but um

2087
01:11:06,149 --> 01:11:04,800
it puts darwin in a completely different

2088
01:11:08,630 --> 01:11:06,159
light about what his

2089
01:11:09,990 --> 01:11:08,640
real objectives were and why the royal

2090
01:11:10,950 --> 01:11:10,000
society wanted to promote those

2091
01:11:12,709 --> 01:11:10,960
objectives

2092
01:11:14,950 --> 01:11:12,719
which is basically the king and queen of

2093
01:11:16,149 --> 01:11:14,960
england so it justified their whole

2094
01:11:17,750 --> 01:11:16,159
empire right

2095
01:11:19,669 --> 01:11:17,760
totally and especially they're at the

2096
01:11:22,470 --> 01:11:19,679
top the global empire

2097
01:11:23,830 --> 01:11:22,480
no no no that's i'm sorry but especially

2098
01:11:26,470 --> 01:11:23,840
we did a bunch of shows on

2099
01:11:26,950 --> 01:11:26,480
wallace you know who is the contemporary

2100
01:11:29,830 --> 01:11:26,960
of

2101
01:11:31,189 --> 01:11:29,840
if you go back in the history books like

2102
01:11:34,390 --> 01:11:31,199
50 years

2103
01:11:36,149 --> 01:11:34,400
the co-discoverers of evolution were

2104
01:11:37,189 --> 01:11:36,159
darwin and wallace especially if you go

2105
01:11:40,310 --> 01:11:37,199
back 75

2106
01:11:42,149 --> 01:11:40,320
and wallace is kind of erased out

2107
01:11:44,550 --> 01:11:42,159
because wallace comes to the conclusion

2108
01:11:46,390 --> 01:11:44,560
that there's a higher order of

2109
01:11:47,189 --> 01:11:46,400
consciousness to this there's no getting

2110
01:11:49,350 --> 01:11:47,199
around it

2111
01:11:51,030 --> 01:11:49,360
and in fact i've had some scholars on

2112
01:11:51,830 --> 01:11:51,040
here and they make a very convincing

2113
01:11:54,870 --> 01:11:51,840
case

2114
01:11:55,750 --> 01:11:54,880
that darwin plagiarized wallace's

2115
01:11:58,790 --> 01:11:55,760
writings

2116
01:12:00,310 --> 01:11:58,800
in order to get his get his theory

2117
01:12:03,030 --> 01:12:00,320
because he didn't have the data

2118
01:12:03,669 --> 01:12:03,040
wallace was in the field collecting just

2119
01:12:05,750 --> 01:12:03,679
widely

2120
01:12:07,030 --> 01:12:05,760
the data he stops on the galapagos

2121
01:12:08,870 --> 01:12:07,040
islands which is great you know but he

2122
01:12:11,350 --> 01:12:08,880
gets this very narrow bit

2123
01:12:12,950 --> 01:12:11,360
wallace is you know he's the working man

2124
01:12:13,990 --> 01:12:12,960
kind of thing he's out there having to

2125
01:12:16,630 --> 01:12:14,000
struggle and collect

2126
01:12:17,669 --> 01:12:16,640
all these things i forget where he was

2127
01:12:19,430 --> 01:12:17,679
but

2128
01:12:20,630 --> 01:12:19,440
you know anyways that's a story for

2129
01:12:21,990 --> 01:12:20,640
another time because here's the other

2130
01:12:25,110 --> 01:12:22,000
question i wanted to skip

2131
01:12:27,270 --> 01:12:25,120
back and really really dig into this one

2132
01:12:28,790 --> 01:12:27,280
what do you make of you know we see the

2133
01:12:31,669 --> 01:12:28,800
hollywood thing

2134
01:12:32,870 --> 01:12:31,679
and we like we get that that johnny depp

2135
01:12:34,550 --> 01:12:32,880
is in you know

2136
01:12:36,790 --> 01:12:34,560
he just looks like a tragic figure to me

2137
01:12:38,470 --> 01:12:36,800
he just looks like somebody whose soul

2138
01:12:39,270 --> 01:12:38,480
has been sucked out of them you know and

2139
01:12:40,550 --> 01:12:39,280
so many people

2140
01:12:42,310 --> 01:12:40,560
i know that's going to sound kind of

2141
01:12:44,630 --> 01:12:42,320
churchy to people but i don't

2142
01:12:46,310 --> 01:12:44,640
i i don't you see that i mean don't you

2143
01:12:50,229 --> 01:12:46,320
see that in some of these people

2144
01:12:52,870 --> 01:12:50,239
but other ones you feel like

2145
01:12:54,149 --> 01:12:52,880
maybe they're just being duped and

2146
01:12:56,630 --> 01:12:54,159
that's where you really feel sorry

2147
01:12:59,430 --> 01:12:56,640
they're going to the parties and

2148
01:13:00,390 --> 01:12:59,440
you know bronovich is you know cutting

2149
01:13:02,790 --> 01:13:00,400
up the cake

2150
01:13:03,990 --> 01:13:02,800
and isn't this cool and they don't

2151
01:13:07,750 --> 01:13:04,000
understand what's

2152
01:13:10,229 --> 01:13:07,760
at play or do you think they do

2153
01:13:12,149 --> 01:13:10,239
well i mean i could probably analogize

2154
01:13:13,830 --> 01:13:12,159
it to my life they had just a naive

2155
01:13:16,310 --> 01:13:13,840
view of certain things you know i had a

2156
01:13:18,310 --> 01:13:16,320
very naive view of american politics

2157
01:13:20,310 --> 01:13:18,320
i you know and there's a lot more going

2158
01:13:21,110 --> 01:13:20,320
on under the surface than you could

2159
01:13:22,470 --> 01:13:21,120
imagine

2160
01:13:23,910 --> 01:13:22,480
and it's probably the same in hollywood

2161
01:13:25,030 --> 01:13:23,920
people wanted to be famous or they

2162
01:13:26,709 --> 01:13:25,040
wanted to

2163
01:13:28,550 --> 01:13:26,719
be in the arts and they may not even

2164
01:13:29,430 --> 01:13:28,560
know what it takes to get to the top and

2165
01:13:31,430 --> 01:13:29,440
i think

2166
01:13:32,550 --> 01:13:31,440
that hollywood for example at least

2167
01:13:34,229 --> 01:13:32,560
recently

2168
01:13:35,830 --> 01:13:34,239
i think you've got to be initiated to

2169
01:13:37,510 --> 01:13:35,840
get to the top one way or another you're

2170
01:13:39,990 --> 01:13:37,520
either into pedophilia

2171
01:13:41,669 --> 01:13:40,000
or occultism or just something dark so

2172
01:13:42,709 --> 01:13:41,679
everybody knows something about somebody

2173
01:13:44,790 --> 01:13:42,719
else you know

2174
01:13:46,229 --> 01:13:44,800
and that's why like a guy like weinstein

2175
01:13:49,270 --> 01:13:46,239
was raping people for

2176
01:13:51,750 --> 01:13:49,280
decades i know the most the amount of

2177
01:13:53,430 --> 01:13:51,760
people who come forward is probably just

2178
01:13:55,430 --> 01:13:53,440
you know a tip of the iceberg for that

2179
01:13:56,790 --> 01:13:55,440
guy so there's something really creepy

2180
01:13:58,550 --> 01:13:56,800
going on in hollywood

2181
01:14:01,030 --> 01:13:58,560
and i think a lot of those guys if you

2182
01:14:01,830 --> 01:14:01,040
really read about some of these stories

2183
01:14:03,510 --> 01:14:01,840
it's just

2184
01:14:06,630 --> 01:14:03,520
i mean if you have you ever read crazy

2185
01:14:10,229 --> 01:14:08,070
it's a really good it's a really good

2186
01:14:12,550 --> 01:14:10,239
website but they are leaking information

2187
01:14:14,790 --> 01:14:12,560
from these guys that they're just

2188
01:14:17,910 --> 01:14:14,800
monsters man a lot of these stars and

2189
01:14:22,390 --> 01:14:17,920
celebrities and directors were

2190
01:14:23,830 --> 01:14:22,400
child rapists i mean bad so i think that

2191
01:14:25,510 --> 01:14:23,840
that's how the system kind of and a lot

2192
01:14:26,709 --> 01:14:25,520
of people who survive some people don't

2193
01:14:29,590 --> 01:14:26,719
survive in hollywood

2194
01:14:31,030 --> 01:14:29,600
they crack and they leave or they just

2195
01:14:32,070 --> 01:14:31,040
are disillusioned

2196
01:14:33,830 --> 01:14:32,080
but the ones that have been there

2197
01:14:35,590 --> 01:14:33,840
forever johnny depp's a perfect example

2198
01:14:37,350 --> 01:14:35,600
if you look at this court case

2199
01:14:39,110 --> 01:14:37,360
that he's having with amber heard's

2200
01:14:41,270 --> 01:14:39,120
involvement they have a recording of

2201
01:14:42,950 --> 01:14:41,280
that guy just howling in pain

2202
01:14:45,189 --> 01:14:42,960
like there's something like about him

2203
01:14:46,709 --> 01:14:45,199
that uh

2204
01:14:49,750 --> 01:14:46,719
yeah it's wrong i mean you can his

2205
01:14:51,430 --> 01:14:49,760
associated association with eccles and

2206
01:14:52,870 --> 01:14:51,440
he was one of the chief financial

2207
01:14:56,310 --> 01:14:52,880
backers to get eccles out

2208
01:14:58,709 --> 01:14:56,320
along with peter jackson so um

2209
01:15:00,790 --> 01:14:58,719
do you know who uh chris knowles is he

2210
01:15:03,270 --> 01:15:00,800
writes a blog

2211
01:15:04,070 --> 01:15:03,280
you know i interviewed uh chris a few

2212
01:15:06,149 --> 01:15:04,080
weeks ago

2213
01:15:07,510 --> 01:15:06,159
and uh i think he's like me he has some

2214
01:15:09,270 --> 01:15:07,520
friends who

2215
01:15:10,790 --> 01:15:09,280
you know we like and respect but are

2216
01:15:12,550 --> 01:15:10,800
kind of in this magic community and we

2217
01:15:15,990 --> 01:15:12,560
keep going what are you doing guys but

2218
01:15:19,270 --> 01:15:16,000
he said it so perfectly he said you know

2219
01:15:22,550 --> 01:15:19,280
if you think you're talking to this

2220
01:15:23,270 --> 01:15:22,560
demon or this entity and they're gonna

2221
01:15:26,390 --> 01:15:23,280
do these

2222
01:15:29,910 --> 01:15:26,400
fantastic things for you

2223
01:15:32,790 --> 01:15:29,920
what do you have to offer in return

2224
01:15:33,910 --> 01:15:32,800
and i thought isn't that doesn't that

2225
01:15:36,550 --> 01:15:33,920
just ring true

2226
01:15:38,229 --> 01:15:36,560
on a kind of personal level how do you

2227
01:15:38,870 --> 01:15:38,239
think you're going to make that deal

2228
01:15:41,030 --> 01:15:38,880
work

2229
01:15:43,430 --> 01:15:41,040
you have nothing except your soul to

2230
01:15:46,950 --> 01:15:43,440
give and that's what you will be asked

2231
01:15:49,750 --> 01:15:46,960
to give at one point or another you know

2232
01:15:51,270 --> 01:15:49,760
very good point very good point hey last

2233
01:15:52,229 --> 01:15:51,280
last point and then i'll wrap it up i

2234
01:15:55,830 --> 01:15:52,239
appreciate you

2235
01:15:58,630 --> 01:15:55,840
push it right up to the 90 minutes

2236
01:16:00,790 --> 01:15:58,640
russ disdar has a really interesting

2237
01:16:03,590 --> 01:16:00,800
theory it's going to sound completely

2238
01:16:05,510 --> 01:16:03,600
wacky to a lot of people but i got a lot

2239
01:16:07,910 --> 01:16:05,520
of reason to believe that he's

2240
01:16:09,669 --> 01:16:07,920
on the right thing and that a lot of

2241
01:16:13,189 --> 01:16:09,679
times when we hear about this

2242
01:16:15,510 --> 01:16:13,199
sexual abuse of children pedophilia

2243
01:16:16,310 --> 01:16:15,520
that it's not even so much about sexual

2244
01:16:19,510 --> 01:16:16,320
abuse

2245
01:16:21,270 --> 01:16:19,520
it's about traumatizing children in

2246
01:16:24,470 --> 01:16:21,280
order to create this

2247
01:16:25,590 --> 01:16:24,480
disassociative identity disorder because

2248
01:16:28,709 --> 01:16:25,600
it is a direct

2249
01:16:30,310 --> 01:16:28,719
link to making them more vulnerable to

2250
01:16:32,950 --> 01:16:30,320
spiritual attack

2251
01:16:34,229 --> 01:16:32,960
and the crazy thing about that is that

2252
01:16:36,950 --> 01:16:34,239
connects directly

2253
01:16:39,110 --> 01:16:36,960
to stuff we've learned about mkultra and

2254
01:16:41,669 --> 01:16:39,120
that we were trying to weaponize

2255
01:16:43,350 --> 01:16:41,679
that disassociative identities disorder

2256
01:16:45,430 --> 01:16:43,360
aspect because we learned

2257
01:16:46,950 --> 01:16:45,440
that it's almost like a technology it's

2258
01:16:48,950 --> 01:16:46,960
a secret code

2259
01:16:50,390 --> 01:16:48,960
and what do you think about that do you

2260
01:16:51,110 --> 01:16:50,400
have any thoughts if you're not i think

2261
01:16:55,669 --> 01:16:51,120
he's right

2262
01:16:58,149 --> 01:16:55,679
true i mean i think that that's

2263
01:16:59,350 --> 01:16:58,159
i mean in a very dark way a lot of the

2264
01:17:01,030 --> 01:16:59,360
stuff that happens in the catholic

2265
01:17:03,030 --> 01:17:01,040
church is to keep people in the catholic

2266
01:17:05,750 --> 01:17:03,040
church so they get traumatized right

2267
01:17:06,470 --> 01:17:05,760
they become helpless they become less at

2268
01:17:09,350 --> 01:17:06,480
less

2269
01:17:10,470 --> 01:17:09,360
uh active so to speak or authoritative

2270
01:17:14,870 --> 01:17:10,480
so i think that that's

2271
01:17:16,229 --> 01:17:14,880
that's definitely uh i mean believable

2272
01:17:18,550 --> 01:17:16,239
right i think that that's what they're

2273
01:17:21,110 --> 01:17:18,560
doing they're deliberately traumatizing

2274
01:17:23,110 --> 01:17:21,120
the kids as well yeah for sure

2275
01:17:24,790 --> 01:17:23,120
and you can see that in some of these

2276
01:17:26,630 --> 01:17:24,800
cases mcmartin and stuff the kids are

2277
01:17:29,350 --> 01:17:26,640
deliberately being traumatized

2278
01:17:29,990 --> 01:17:29,360
or or the finders case i mean there's

2279
01:17:31,750 --> 01:17:30,000
some these

2280
01:17:34,310 --> 01:17:31,760
they're all using these same techniques

2281
01:17:34,950 --> 01:17:34,320
and these strange occultists are running

2282
01:17:38,550 --> 01:17:34,960
the whole show

2283
01:17:40,229 --> 01:17:38,560
look at the finder's case man terrifying

2284
01:17:42,390 --> 01:17:40,239
well you can get into deliberate

2285
01:17:45,590 --> 01:17:42,400
traumatization in 9 11.

2286
01:17:47,030 --> 01:17:45,600
i mean incredible it's traumatizing if

2287
01:17:48,870 --> 01:17:47,040
you think the government did it or it's

2288
01:17:52,149 --> 01:17:48,880
traumatizing if you think that

2289
01:17:55,070 --> 01:17:52,159
some guy in a cave in afghanistan did it

2290
01:17:56,950 --> 01:17:55,080
so when you get into weaponized

2291
01:17:59,189 --> 01:17:56,960
traumatization

2292
01:18:01,430 --> 01:17:59,199
then you're at this that just the

2293
01:18:02,790 --> 01:18:01,440
thought that someone has figured out

2294
01:18:05,510 --> 01:18:02,800
that they can

2295
01:18:07,590 --> 01:18:05,520
get a leg up by doing that is really

2296
01:18:10,149 --> 01:18:07,600
scary especially in this extended realm

2297
01:18:11,669 --> 01:18:10,159
yeah very scary and you know the

2298
01:18:13,510 --> 01:18:11,679
traumatization starts and then the

2299
01:18:14,950 --> 01:18:13,520
suggestion follows right

2300
01:18:17,030 --> 01:18:14,960
so you traumatize and then the

2301
01:18:17,990 --> 01:18:17,040
suggestion and then you've opened up the

2302
01:18:19,430 --> 01:18:18,000
goals

2303
01:18:21,669 --> 01:18:19,440
yeah and then you you're absolutely

2304
01:18:24,070 --> 01:18:21,679
right then you have this kind of uh

2305
01:18:25,350 --> 01:18:24,080
approach this this technique that they

2306
01:18:28,470 --> 01:18:25,360
know right

2307
01:18:29,110 --> 01:18:28,480
it's a known you know skill it becomes a

2308
01:18:31,030 --> 01:18:29,120
skill

2309
01:18:32,310 --> 01:18:31,040
and that they develop that i mean this

2310
01:18:34,310 --> 01:18:32,320
book you should have uh

2311
01:18:35,510 --> 01:18:34,320
o'neill tom o'neill as a guest the book

2312
01:18:38,229 --> 01:18:35,520
chaos about

2313
01:18:39,270 --> 01:18:38,239
manson he uncovered information that

2314
01:18:42,310 --> 01:18:39,280
these guys these

2315
01:18:43,910 --> 01:18:42,320
jolly and west and greenberg were in

2316
01:18:46,149 --> 01:18:43,920
communication with each other

2317
01:18:47,350 --> 01:18:46,159
talking about creating hypnotized people

2318
01:18:49,669 --> 01:18:47,360
and traumatizing them

2319
01:18:50,630 --> 01:18:49,679
all the way back in the 50s and 60s and

2320
01:18:53,110 --> 01:18:50,640
they had to lie

2321
01:18:55,110 --> 01:18:53,120
about these techniques and say it's not

2322
01:18:56,630 --> 01:18:55,120
possible because that was the

2323
01:18:58,790 --> 01:18:56,640
that was the cover on the truth that

2324
01:19:00,390 --> 01:18:58,800
they could literally hypnotize people

2325
01:19:02,790 --> 01:19:00,400
through traumatization and stuff like

2326
01:19:04,149 --> 01:19:02,800
that if you look at sirhan surhan

2327
01:19:05,590 --> 01:19:04,159
like i've talked to authors about that

2328
01:19:06,870 --> 01:19:05,600
he disappeared for two weeks they don't

2329
01:19:08,390 --> 01:19:06,880
even know where he was

2330
01:19:10,630 --> 01:19:08,400
i think he was in some kind of

2331
01:19:12,709 --> 01:19:10,640
california was really crazy in the 60s

2332
01:19:13,830 --> 01:19:12,719
holy smokes anyway that's off topic but

2333
01:19:15,350 --> 01:19:13,840
it kind of is

2334
01:19:17,990 --> 01:19:15,360
this technique you're talking about

2335
01:19:20,070 --> 01:19:18,000
somebody some of these wizards and

2336
01:19:21,189 --> 01:19:20,080
materialists like jolly and wes who had

2337
01:19:24,390 --> 01:19:21,199
his son kill his

2338
01:19:26,950 --> 01:19:24,400
him and his wife in a freaking uh

2339
01:19:29,510 --> 01:19:26,960
assisted suicide which is super dark

2340
01:19:30,870 --> 01:19:29,520
uh knew that stuff okay i was going to

2341
01:19:32,470 --> 01:19:30,880
try and wrap it up but you kind of

2342
01:19:34,709 --> 01:19:32,480
opened something up

2343
01:19:36,149 --> 01:19:34,719
so i want you to i want you to close i

2344
01:19:36,950 --> 01:19:36,159
want you to close that door because it

2345
01:19:39,830 --> 01:19:36,960
brings it around

2346
01:19:41,750 --> 01:19:39,840
full circle you're talking about it and

2347
01:19:43,030 --> 01:19:41,760
i love that you just kind of just the

2348
01:19:45,990 --> 01:19:43,040
facts ma'am

2349
01:19:47,030 --> 01:19:46,000
but connect that what does that mean on

2350
01:20:03,270 --> 01:19:47,040
a

2351
01:20:04,870 --> 01:20:03,280
how do you process it it's terrifying

2352
01:20:06,229 --> 01:20:04,880
well it's terrifying like this book the

2353
01:20:08,310 --> 01:20:06,239
shock doctrine

2354
01:20:10,149 --> 01:20:08,320
they think that these political leaders

2355
01:20:11,189 --> 01:20:10,159
all the way back to the overthrow of

2356
01:20:14,390 --> 01:20:11,199
allende

2357
01:20:16,550 --> 01:20:14,400
newly elected guy in chile of pinochet

2358
01:20:17,590 --> 01:20:16,560
that they have learned this technique of

2359
01:20:19,590 --> 01:20:17,600
how to

2360
01:20:21,030 --> 01:20:19,600
terrify a populist where you don't even

2361
01:20:24,629 --> 01:20:21,040
have to

2362
01:20:26,790 --> 01:20:24,639
um use force because the psychological

2363
01:20:28,229 --> 01:20:26,800
traumatization is so strong

2364
01:20:29,990 --> 01:20:28,239
that people will be terrified to do

2365
01:20:33,030 --> 01:20:30,000
anything and so

2366
01:20:35,990 --> 01:20:33,040
i think that that is a horrible

2367
01:20:38,070 --> 01:20:36,000
conclusion just the implication of that

2368
01:20:41,030 --> 01:20:38,080
and the conclusion of that happening

2369
01:20:43,110 --> 01:20:41,040
in other countries possibly even here if

2370
01:20:47,430 --> 01:20:43,120
you read mind war by

2371
01:20:51,189 --> 01:20:47,440
uh was it valeli and uh

2372
01:20:52,709 --> 01:20:51,199
what's up camera michael aquino

2373
01:20:54,390 --> 01:20:52,719
don't be surprised if these guys are

2374
01:20:55,430 --> 01:20:54,400
using it on you i mean that's what's

2375
01:20:57,590 --> 01:20:55,440
really scary is these

2376
01:21:00,229 --> 01:20:57,600
techniques they know it william i i've

2377
01:21:03,750 --> 01:21:00,239
avoided in in all my shows even talking

2378
01:21:07,030 --> 01:21:03,760
about covet never brought it up

2379
01:21:08,950 --> 01:21:07,040
but the trauma part is just

2380
01:21:10,229 --> 01:21:08,960
is just unavoidable when you start

2381
01:21:12,470 --> 01:21:10,239
putting together

2382
01:21:14,229 --> 01:21:12,480
these cases and you're talking about

2383
01:21:15,270 --> 01:21:14,239
chile you know and let's get everyone in

2384
01:21:19,510 --> 01:21:15,280
the

2385
01:21:21,110 --> 01:21:19,520
two days

2386
01:21:22,470 --> 01:21:21,120
and then let's just take two of them out

2387
01:21:23,830 --> 01:21:22,480
and shoot them that's all we have to do

2388
01:21:25,590 --> 01:21:23,840
is just kill two of them

2389
01:21:26,950 --> 01:21:25,600
and bring back the bodies and now

2390
01:21:30,470 --> 01:21:26,960
everyone can go home

2391
01:21:32,229 --> 01:21:30,480
that's it yeah they only killed in that

2392
01:21:33,830 --> 01:21:32,239
whole overthrow they only killed 3 000

2393
01:21:35,030 --> 01:21:33,840
people considering it was a huge country

2394
01:21:38,310 --> 01:21:35,040
it's not i mean compare

2395
01:21:39,430 --> 01:21:38,320
it's a tragedy but to co to pacify the

2396
01:21:42,550 --> 01:21:39,440
entire country

2397
01:21:45,510 --> 01:21:42,560
it's not that many people dead so

2398
01:21:46,629 --> 01:21:45,520
so william it's been just awesome having

2399
01:21:48,149 --> 01:21:46,639
you on especially this

2400
01:21:50,310 --> 01:21:48,159
end part i hope people can get an

2401
01:21:52,310 --> 01:21:50,320
appreciation for just

2402
01:21:53,990 --> 01:21:52,320
gosh the depth of knowledge and i almost

2403
01:21:55,830 --> 01:21:54,000
feel like maybe we didn't

2404
01:21:57,430 --> 01:21:55,840
i pulled around in too many wrong places

2405
01:21:59,030 --> 01:21:57,440
but i couldn't help it because you just

2406
01:22:00,790 --> 01:21:59,040
know so much and i wanted to

2407
01:22:02,310 --> 01:22:00,800
pick and poke at so many different

2408
01:22:04,390 --> 01:22:02,320
things tell folks

2409
01:22:06,229 --> 01:22:04,400
how they can stay on top of this work

2410
01:22:07,830 --> 01:22:06,239
where they can find you're going and

2411
01:22:08,709 --> 01:22:07,840
keep up with your shows and keep up with

2412
01:22:11,750 --> 01:22:08,719
your books and

2413
01:22:13,270 --> 01:22:11,760
maybe what's on the horizon coming up

2414
01:22:15,030 --> 01:22:13,280
well i've been doing documentaries

2415
01:22:16,950 --> 01:22:15,040
recently so my documentaries can be

2416
01:22:19,110 --> 01:22:16,960
found on vimeo under william ramsey i

2417
01:22:21,830 --> 01:22:19,120
have five documentaries there

2418
01:22:24,390 --> 01:22:21,840
and then i kind of do a podcast william

2419
01:22:25,830 --> 01:22:24,400
ramsey investigates which you can get on

2420
01:22:27,669 --> 01:22:25,840
itunes or

2421
01:22:29,430 --> 01:22:27,679
spreaker or anything like that i have a

2422
01:22:30,629 --> 01:22:29,440
lot of old research into the west

2423
01:22:32,229 --> 01:22:30,639
memphis 3

2424
01:22:33,910 --> 01:22:32,239
on my youtube channel which i'm trying

2425
01:22:36,550 --> 01:22:33,920
to kind of just morph

2426
01:22:37,990 --> 01:22:36,560
away from or use less but there's old

2427
01:22:40,229 --> 01:22:38,000
videos there if you want to see my

2428
01:22:41,189 --> 01:22:40,239
research going back with all these other

2429
01:22:44,790 --> 01:22:41,199
characters

2430
01:22:46,310 --> 01:22:44,800
that william ramsay investigates and uh

2431
01:22:47,750 --> 01:22:46,320
you know i have three books that i wrote

2432
01:22:50,030 --> 01:22:47,760
about these different subjects which you

2433
01:22:51,270 --> 01:22:50,040
can find on amazon or my website is

2434
01:22:52,950 --> 01:22:51,280
williamramseyinvestigates.com if you

2435
01:22:54,790 --> 01:22:52,960
want signed copies

2436
01:22:56,070 --> 01:22:54,800
and william ramsey investigates i just

2437
01:22:58,229 --> 01:22:56,080
want to tell people again

2438
01:22:59,430 --> 01:22:58,239
you it's it's up-to-date stuff you know

2439
01:23:01,590 --> 01:22:59,440
we've just been kind of in this one

2440
01:23:03,270 --> 01:23:01,600
little lane but you're talking to

2441
01:23:04,790 --> 01:23:03,280
all sorts of different interesting

2442
01:23:06,550 --> 01:23:04,800
people and

2443
01:23:08,470 --> 01:23:06,560
really digging in in that kind of

2444
01:23:09,430 --> 01:23:08,480
attorney style get to the facts kind of

2445
01:23:10,709 --> 01:23:09,440
thing so like

2446
01:23:12,229 --> 01:23:10,719
who are some of the guests that you've

2447
01:23:13,430 --> 01:23:12,239
had on recently that you were really

2448
01:23:14,470 --> 01:23:13,440
excited to interview and

2449
01:23:17,189 --> 01:23:14,480
who are some of the people you have

2450
01:23:18,870 --> 01:23:17,199
coming up well just like i talked to you

2451
01:23:21,350 --> 01:23:18,880
i talked to tom o'neill about his book

2452
01:23:23,830 --> 01:23:21,360
chaos i highly recommend that book

2453
01:23:24,950 --> 01:23:23,840
um i talked to a really good book about

2454
01:23:26,870 --> 01:23:24,960
uh

2455
01:23:29,270 --> 01:23:26,880
the let's sit liber if you want to talk

2456
01:23:32,070 --> 01:23:29,280
about a huge psyop it's the

2457
01:23:33,350 --> 01:23:32,080
people's nose the symbionese liberation

2458
01:23:36,629 --> 01:23:33,360
army the book is

2459
01:23:38,310 --> 01:23:36,639
revolutions end by schreiber highly

2460
01:23:40,070 --> 01:23:38,320
recommend that book because

2461
01:23:42,229 --> 01:23:40,080
it was just one tiny little piece of

2462
01:23:45,189 --> 01:23:42,239
this operation chaos where

2463
01:23:45,750 --> 01:23:45,199
a fake leftist organization in my

2464
01:23:48,950 --> 01:23:45,760
opinion

2465
01:23:52,149 --> 01:23:48,960
was created to

2466
01:23:54,229 --> 01:23:52,159
subvert the left um and it was the

2467
01:23:57,270 --> 01:23:54,239
symbionese liberation army in this guy

2468
01:23:58,790 --> 01:23:57,280
senkay and i would highly recommend that

2469
01:24:00,629 --> 01:23:58,800
book because it'll

2470
01:24:02,070 --> 01:24:00,639
it'll twist your ideas i'd highly

2471
01:24:04,310 --> 01:24:02,080
recommend that interview

2472
01:24:06,310 --> 01:24:04,320
you did yeah that was a great really

2473
01:24:06,950 --> 01:24:06,320
good now brad schreiber is his name

2474
01:24:09,350 --> 01:24:06,960
highly

2475
01:24:12,709 --> 01:24:09,360
good great writer and then i also lease

2476
01:24:16,070 --> 01:24:12,719
a piece about rfk and sir ann surahan

2477
01:24:17,750 --> 01:24:16,080
about political assassination so you

2478
01:24:19,350 --> 01:24:17,760
know i'm really definitely interested in

2479
01:24:21,590 --> 01:24:19,360
parapolitics so

2480
01:24:23,669 --> 01:24:21,600
and i think that those books all back up

2481
01:24:25,189 --> 01:24:23,679
their their premises and their positions

2482
01:24:28,229 --> 01:24:25,199
i think that

2483
01:24:31,350 --> 01:24:28,239
uh sirhan sirhan was a patsy

2484
01:24:33,750 --> 01:24:31,360
and my had real something was going on

2485
01:24:37,270 --> 01:24:33,760
with him he was the subject of something

2486
01:24:38,390 --> 01:24:37,280
really creepy so um those are just some

2487
01:24:41,030 --> 01:24:38,400
examples i'm trying

2488
01:24:41,910 --> 01:24:41,040
you know not everybody says yes to my

2489
01:24:45,350 --> 01:24:41,920
interviews but

2490
01:24:47,270 --> 01:24:45,360
i think i've been very fortunate to uh

2491
01:24:49,350 --> 01:24:47,280
get really good authors i do read the

2492
01:24:50,310 --> 01:24:49,360
books so i definitely try to be an

2493
01:24:54,229 --> 01:24:50,320
informed

2494
01:24:56,149 --> 01:24:54,239
interviewer and not try to

2495
01:24:57,510 --> 01:24:56,159
get anything away just focus on the

2496
01:24:58,629 --> 01:24:57,520
context of the book and make people make

2497
01:25:01,430 --> 01:24:58,639
their argument or

2498
01:25:01,910 --> 01:25:01,440
why they have this position and i think

2499
01:25:04,310 --> 01:25:01,920
that

2500
01:25:05,750 --> 01:25:04,320
you know i've had people from it's uh

2501
01:25:08,870 --> 01:25:05,760
you know i try i'm not

2502
01:25:09,830 --> 01:25:08,880
i've i'm done with like political

2503
01:25:12,390 --> 01:25:09,840
parties so

2504
01:25:13,110 --> 01:25:12,400
i don't really have a partisan axe to

2505
01:25:16,310 --> 01:25:13,120
grind

2506
01:25:17,189 --> 01:25:16,320
and uh i think that benefits talking to

2507
01:25:19,350 --> 01:25:17,199
people so

2508
01:25:20,390 --> 01:25:19,360
i think in that regard i'm pleased with

2509
01:25:21,750 --> 01:25:20,400
some of the interviews i've done

2510
01:25:23,990 --> 01:25:21,760
recently for sure

2511
01:25:25,990 --> 01:25:24,000
well fantastic it's uh it's been

2512
01:25:28,070 --> 01:25:26,000
absolutely great having you on and i i

2513
01:25:29,110 --> 01:25:28,080
hope people do check out william ramsey

2514
01:25:30,629 --> 01:25:29,120
investigates so

2515
01:25:33,030 --> 01:25:30,639
thanks again well it's great to talk

2516
01:25:34,709 --> 01:25:33,040
with you man it's really good to be with

2517
01:25:39,510 --> 01:25:34,719
somebody as well informed as you so it's

2518
01:25:43,030 --> 01:25:40,950
thanks again to william ramsay for

2519
01:25:46,229 --> 01:25:43,040
joining me today on skeptico

2520
01:25:46,950 --> 01:25:46,239
he is quite impressive in terms of his

2521
01:25:50,390 --> 01:25:46,960
knowledge

2522
01:25:52,229 --> 01:25:50,400
of this topic and his ability to dive

2523
01:25:54,390 --> 01:25:52,239
deep with all the legal stuff so it was

2524
01:25:55,270 --> 01:25:54,400
really great having him on the one

2525
01:25:57,750 --> 01:25:55,280
question i'd tee

2526
01:25:59,830 --> 01:25:57,760
up from this interview is where do you

2527
01:26:01,189 --> 01:25:59,840
come down on damien echols in the west

2528
01:26:04,629 --> 01:26:01,199
memphis three

2529
01:26:07,990 --> 01:26:04,639
with regard particularly to

2530
01:26:10,149 --> 01:26:08,000
satanic panic is he this

2531
01:26:11,030 --> 01:26:10,159
poster boy he's made out to be for

2532
01:26:17,910 --> 01:26:11,040
satanic

2533
01:26:19,189 --> 01:26:17,920
going on in and around his life you know

2534
01:26:20,470 --> 01:26:19,199
i didn't bring up the thing with his

2535
01:26:22,709 --> 01:26:20,480
mother but you know

2536
01:26:24,390 --> 01:26:22,719
his mother gave birth to him when she

2537
01:26:27,510 --> 01:26:24,400
was like 15 years old

2538
01:26:28,229 --> 01:26:27,520
and it's just such a dysfunctional you

2539
01:26:31,669 --> 01:26:28,239
you have to

2540
01:26:33,270 --> 01:26:31,679
you cannot uh go through this and not

2541
01:26:37,430 --> 01:26:33,280
feel sorry for this kid

2542
01:26:40,950 --> 01:26:37,440
damian eccles even though you know

2543
01:26:41,830 --> 01:26:40,960
he did what he did but you know his

2544
01:26:46,629 --> 01:26:41,840
mother

2545
01:26:48,790 --> 01:26:46,639
gets him into all this satanic stuff

2546
01:26:49,750 --> 01:26:48,800
you know and that's never really that's

2547
01:26:52,229 --> 01:26:49,760
all kind of

2548
01:26:53,030 --> 01:26:52,239
washed away and obscured in this kind of

2549
01:26:55,590 --> 01:26:53,040
ocean of

2550
01:26:56,550 --> 01:26:55,600
oh it's all satanic panic witch hunt

2551
01:26:59,910 --> 01:26:56,560
craziness

2552
01:27:01,510 --> 01:26:59,920
which it's not in my opinion but what's

2553
01:27:03,110 --> 01:27:01,520
your opinion this is supposed to be a

2554
01:27:03,669 --> 01:27:03,120
question so let me tee it up as a

2555
01:27:07,189 --> 01:27:03,679
question

2556
01:27:09,189 --> 01:27:07,199
what do you think satanic panic yes

2557
01:27:11,030 --> 01:27:09,199
or no i realize it can be kind of hard

2558
01:27:12,550 --> 01:27:11,040
to answer that one since i came down

2559
01:27:14,470 --> 01:27:12,560
pretty strong on it but

2560
01:27:15,990 --> 01:27:14,480
it's kind of a hot button issue for me

2561
01:27:17,669 --> 01:27:16,000
do let me know what you think

2562
01:27:19,189 --> 01:27:17,679
stay with me for all these future shows

2563
01:27:20,550 --> 01:27:19,199
coming up i got a bunch of them i don't

2564
01:27:23,430 --> 01:27:20,560
know how i'm going to get them all out

2565
01:27:24,149 --> 01:27:23,440
but they're coming until next time take